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Dose 11 – Non si sterza sui morti

Violento nubifragio a Roma. Si temono infeltriti.

A seguito dell’alluvione, chiusi i fori. Facevano le bolle.

Alemanno pensa di chiedere lo stato di calamità naturale. Mi sembra onesto come bilancio dei primi tre anni.

Maroni: “Poteva scapparci di fare il morto”.

6300 detenuti escono dalle carceri birmane. Ma non notano la differenza.

Berlusconi a tavola con Pannella. Gli serve per rigovernare.

Tokyo, arrivano i vagoni per sole donne. Tirano più della locomotiva.

Si chiamerà Big Bang il prossimo raduno dei giovani Pd. Entrambi ci arrivano come rumore di fondo.

Sacerdote muore nel letto avvolto dalle fiamme. Forse dopo un gioco eretico.

Rintracciato l’hacker che ha diffuso le foto di Scarlett Johansson nuda. Spero per dargli il Pulitzer.

Turista tedesco divorato dai cannibali. Otto è mangiato.

Si suicida la star delle telenovelas argentine Osvaldo Guidi. La decisione presa nel ’91.

Sapienza, Rocco Siffredi incontra gli universitari. E dà loro un bel trenta.

(Siffredi ospite all’università. Il magnifico erettore)

Rocco Siffredi incontra i laureandi. Per prepararli a quel che li aspetta.

All’asta un dente di John Lennon. Let teeth be.

Fortissimo terremoto in Turchia. È quasi entrata in Europa.

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Dose offerta da zerato, nano II, novevonbismarck, lughino, giga, filipio, fabrizioferri, naima84, feel-ice, demerzelev, sisivabbe, serena gandhi, grazieadiosonoateo, batduccio, joe wine, misterdonnie, giggi, frandiben.

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POST SCRIPTUM: gli amministratori di Nonciclopedia ci fanno notare che il titolo di questo post coincide con la didascalia di un’illustrazione pubblicata sul loro sito circa un anno fa, e ripresa proprio in questi giorni. Posto che non crediamo si tratti di un plagio (la stessa idea può essere benissimo venuta indipendentemente a diverse persone) lo facciamo presente, raccomandando di non inviare mai a Spinoza materiale pescato altrove.

7.908 commenti a “Dose 11 – Non si sterza sui morti”

6 • melarossa24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:34

Uno dei post migliori degli ultimi tempi, l’ultima è favolosa!

(Il mio primo commento su Spinoza, che emozione!)

14 • Ro_mi24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:41

Il titolo è da oscar.
il resto, pure. troppo cattivi. :)

mi domando dove le peschiate!!

EHI il titolo “NON SI STERZA SUI MORTI” non vi sembra di PESSIMO gusto, dopo la tragedia a Simoncelli???

@Ste
questo è un sito di satira, e soprattutto nessuno ci obbliga a visitarlo.
Cordoglio per Marco Simoncelli ma non vedo perché avrebbero dovuto risparmiarlo a differenza di tutti gli altri.

28 • pepegna24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:50

a parte il titolo nulla su simoncelli? c’era una miniera da esplorare…paura eh?

29 • Alice24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:51

Ste, se non ci fosse stata la tragedia di Simoncelli non ci sarebbe stato il titolo ERGO è humor nero!

30 • tiziano24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:51

tutte le risate che mi avete fatto fare, non valgono un centesimo della vergogna che provo per voi per quel titolo.

32 • Principessa Vittoria24 ottobre 2011 alle 16:53

Ammazza che palle.. Ma di cosa dovrebbero vergognarsi?? Sic ne avrebbe riso

Da ieri mi chiedevo come vi sareste comportati nei confronti della morte di Simoncelli. Con quel titolo vi dimostrate dei signori, concisi, eleganti e sottili. Non avreste potuto fare di meglio.

ma andate a masturbarvi su siti necrofili se tanto vi divertite…
questa non e’ ne’ ironia ne’ satira…

Sic, ci avrebbe riso su. @critici: mi spiegate qual è la differenza tra sic e il morto nell’alluvione di roma?

Eccoli i soliti: ridono di tutto, poi se gli tocchi qualcosa si arrabbiano e si offendono. Sottoscrivo @ms, bel titolo, ed è ottima idea fermarsi lì, difficile fare meglio, bravi.

37 • filipio24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:14

c’è una battuta stupenda nella discussione su sic:

“Grave incidente, Simoncelli è morto.
Lui, altrove, ci sta già scherzando su.”

Se ragionate con questo spirito capirete che non c’è nulla da vergognarsi, ma è solo un modo per ricordarlo, senza ipocrisia e senza falsi moralismi

Che cosa ne sapete di Sic.
Luca, nessuna differenza: infatti non ho letto neanche una riga, sono rimasto schifato del titolo, il resto probabilmente e’ peggio.

ma che ipocrisia e falsi moralismi: se fa schifo fa schifo.
la mia morale me la tengo per me.

41 • malandrino dentro24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:21

GRANDIOSO!!!! a dire il vero mi ha fatto piegare in due dalle risate più questo post che non quello “ufficiale”… quello faceva cagare…

Per quanto io sia rimasto colpito e sconvolto dalla morte di Simonceli, penso che il titolo sia di ottimo gusto. Irriverente ma non irrispettoso. Riservare a Simoncelli un trattamento diverso di quello dato a Gheddafi, a Steve Jobs e a chiunque altro sarebbe stato ipocrita. Inoltre molte delle persone che si scandalizzano per le battute su Sic son le stesse che quando si scherza sui bambini africani o sulle vittime dello tsunami giapponese ridono di gusto. Il fatto che la vittima abbia una faccia a noi nota non cambia l’entità della morte in sé. Quindi, se vogliamo ridere, ridiamo di chiunque. Non è una risata che dimostra la nostra umanità e la nostra empatia

[con questa vi lascio]
Guga,
ma sai ridere solo di disgrazie?
l’umorismo e’ un’altra cosa…

ciao spinoza, non mi mancherai!

45 • mario24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:29

@filipio: applauso.
@tutti i cacaca..o: e se il titolo nascondesse un gran dispiacere?

bello e intelligente,come sempre.

grifen2

ma per favore non vi scandalizzate per le battute sulle 4 donne (operaie e studentesse ) morte a barletta per 3 euro all’ora e non si può fare un titolo su simoncelli? è solo umorismo… fatevi una risata! quanta ipocrisia!

ma che palle! non vi potete godere le battute e basta invece di rompere i maroni ogni volta su quello che doveva esserci e non c’è o quello che c’è e vi fa schifo?

50 • Elisabetta24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:50

Il titolo vince su tutta la linea.
Facchinetti e Fiorello si son fatti sentire?

51 • Matilde24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:51

Vi leggo sempre da un anno a questa parte.
Ridacchio spesso.
Non me ne perdo una.

Oggi mi fate pena.
Son due giorni che ho il magone e leggo un titolo così.
Ma andate a quel paese, voi e tutti quelli che si rattristano perchè non avete osato abbastanza.
Non avete pietà.
Avreste fatto un figurone a glissare sull’argomento.
Ma la cattiveria paga troppo bene.
Tolti dai miei preferiti.
Ciao

53 • gunzapper24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:55

@ critici: Non vedo nulla di offensivo in quel titolo! Lo trovo addirittura delicato, quasi un omaggio al pilota più che una battuta. Nessuno ha scempiato il cadavere di Simoncelli ed ho apprezzato molto che non ci siano state battute corrosive sull’accaduto.

54 • Danila24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:56

Neanche Spinoza è priva di retorica (nei commenti). Ha detto bene quello che nel post su Sic ha scritto: “Morto Simoncelli. Verrà sepolto sotto un cumulo di retorica”.

Non la capisco proprio la gente che viene su Spinoza per poi scandalizzarsi e scrivere le solite stronz*** moraliste. Si è scherzato sui morti di Oslo (tutti più giovani di Sic, ammazzati mentre coltivavano la loro passione). Si è scherzato su barletta, su terremoti e su alluvioni. Ma si sa, neanche la morte è uguale per tutti.

Comunque, per la cronaca, io adoravo Marco Simoncelli. Ho la sua stessa età, lo seguivo da quand’era in 250 e mi svegliavo alle 5 della domenica per vedere le sue gare. Ieri quando ho capito che era morto ho pianto, come se avessi perso un amico. Dopo qualche ora ho pensato a Spinoza e sono venuta a cercare il post su di lui per ridere, per vedere la cosa da un’altra angolazione. Perchè così la morte sembra meno brutta.

Condivido la battuta di qualcuno che ha scritto sul forum: “Marco, Rest In Pole”.

55 • claudia24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:56

Grandi come sempre.
Chi si scandalizza è solo un ipocrita.
La morte è sempre morte.
E la satira è sempre satira.
Non ha trattamenti preferenziali per nessuno.
Non avrebbe senso!

Grandi di nuovo. E chi si scandalizza andasse a quel paese ;)

56 • grazieAdioSonoAteo24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:58

@ i soliti bacchettoni:

a volte una battuta, se intelligente, non banale e non inutilmente cattiva può essere un tributo e un omaggio più sincero ed efficace di una frase retorica o di un banale link condiviso su FB.

57 • lughino24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:59

Ma sì, alla fine si ha bisogno dei baciapile. Rendono le miserie che mi capitano più rosee. Io mi dico sempre: pensa se fossi nato così? Poi la vita torna a sorridermi.

60 • sommotiresia24 ottobre 2011 alle 18:17

Rassegnamoci al fatto che qualsiasi argomento tocchiate qualcuno vi cancellerà dai preferiti.. Ricordo a tutti che il miglior modo di disonorare una persona o un fatto è ignorarli, il migliore di onorarli è fare qualcosa di creativo. Erigere altarini virtuali pieni di foto e frasi tristi è un modo (banale).
La persona in particolare, solare amante del rischio e della vita, avrebbe senz’altro gradito questo titolo e magar qualche battuta, e da lassù si starà leggendo il thread del forum.

61 • Rospuz24 ottobre 2011 alle 18:18

…la settimana scorsa, al funerale di un carissimo cugino, a ricordare con tutti gli altri ….. e a ridere delle cazzate fatte e dette assieme……

…ecco con Sic penso dovrebbe essere così…..
La morte si esorcizza anche con un sorriso (e anche se fuori contesto : UNA RISATA VI SEPPELLIRA’)

64 • Banda della Bandana24 ottobre 2011 alle 18:33

@Matilde

Sei la spiegazione vivente del perchè gente come Giovanardi prende voti.

67 • Naima8424 ottobre 2011 alle 19:01

Hei, ma ci sono anch’io!!!!! Prima pubblicazione, devo offrire da bere a tutti, giusto?

68 • Frandiben24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:02

Per realizzare questo post sono morti anche un sacerdote, un velista tedesco, un attore argentino e oltre mille turchi.
Ma tutti badano solo al più famoso. Bravi bravi.

69 • Falafiele24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:15

Sai che ridere per noi romagnoli, provate a chiedere a Valentino cosa ne pensa del titolo.. No e’ questione di retorica o di moralismi e’ solo che quando si scherza sulla morte di una persona che senti così vicina a te non riesci proprio a capire come si faccia a fare un titolo del genere..non sono un bacchettone ma non ci sta proprio

70 • Orroli24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:20

quando nell’alluvione o in un incidente morirà vostro figlio o vostro fratello, un’amica, vostra madre, sono sicuro che saprete essere ironici più che mai..mitici…

71 • marcodamilano24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:21

grande post, a partire dal titolo!
per i finti moralisti: la battuta sul prete non vi ha scandalizzato? e perchè?..non era famoso e non correva in moto? il grande Sic, dall’alto (sempre ci sia) se la starà sghignazzando alla grande.

Spinoza, avanti così!

73 • Naima8424 ottobre 2011 alle 19:28

E’ tutto vero, avete ragione.. Pensate se questa disgrazia fosse capitata a vostro figlio.. Pensate se vostro figlio fosse un giovane del PD.. (Così magari qualcuno si caga pure la mia battuta! :D )

74 • gertrude_24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:33

A quelli in lutto integrale per il motociclista (uno che la morte prematura l’aveva preventivata): se siete tanto tristi perché venite su Spinoza a farvi due risate? Male, molto male. Il titolo è poetico e paradossale. Voi invece siete solo paradossali.

75 • rainbow24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:40

noi abbiamo il sacrosanto dovere di scherzare sulla morte, perchè tanto anche lei scherza con noi. altrimenti non si capirebbe perchè tocca sempre a quello sbagliato!

Leggo i commenti e resto basita. Solo le morti dei VIP contano e hanno “diritto” a reazioni emotive con annessi aaltarini commemorativi?

Il Post è splendido.

77 • crazyjoker24 ottobre 2011 alle 19:49

Amavo simoncelli..un gran persona e un gran pilota!!! Seguo da anni spinoza e credo che il post sia perfetto. Il titolo con tutte le battute che sono state fatte sul sic ricama la sottile realtà… Forse lo leggo piu come un omaggio tenendo la linea satirica di spinoza con un doppio senso e evitando di scrivere battute inutili.

81 • Maurizio24 ottobre 2011 alle 20:49

Ironizzate su chi vi fotte tutte le mattine, su chi vi allontana ogni giorno di più i vostri sogni o i vostri obiettivi, per tutto il resto solo gran cattivo gusto!Chissà se il giorno che proverete qualcosa di simile troverete la forza di ironizzare…..

82 • barrakappa24 ottobre 2011 alle 20:52

Ma allora, perchè risparmiare Simoncelli, cioè perchè “risparmiare” uno che è appena morto? Perchè non scherzarci su? Se dire che è di cattivo gusto non basta allora accontentiamoci di dire che non fa ridere e neanche sorridere. La satira sui morti è delicata e non deve essere gratuita, dovrebbe avere un senso che va al di là dell’evento in se e non un banalissimo e insulso gioco di parole. Ma che razza di satira è questa?

85 • Harold Smith24 ottobre 2011 alle 21:20

Sono scandalizzato! Che schifo! Mi vien da vomitare! Secondo me tutto questo scempio è colpa dell’utente “ghiro”. Deve essere un blec blocc. Ho letto che in forum invitava le persone a ridere della morte di tutti. A’ anche deto che bisogna ridere degli ebrei e a’ fato ili saluto di Romano, quello col braccio alzato che sembra vuole fermare i autobus. Ghiro hê del partito dell’odio, io dellamore e delle liberta. Denunciate Ghiro alla migros

88 • mike8024 ottobre 2011 alle 21:32

io penso che Spinoza ha trovato il modo migliore per dedicare una battuta a Simoncelli: interamente d’accordo su chi la definisce irriverente ma non irrispettosa. E’ elegante, arguta, e giustamente fa riferimento più’ che Simoncelli a una discussione tipica che succede ogni volta che ci sono battute su tragedie.

Non farla sarebbe stato ipocrita, si sono fatte battute sul terremoto di aquila (per la più’ parte amare) , su steve jobs (commemorative ma anche acide), sulle lavoratrici a 4 euro (amare e non).

Incattivircisi sopra come altri siti (umore maligno)mi sembra un po’ la gara corrente al “chi e’ più’ irriverente”. E’ vero che in queste situazioni abbonda l’ipocrisia su cui la satira adora puntare il dito, ma c’e’ un limite di rispetto da non oltrepassare. Quantomeno non scadendo nello scontato.

il titolo è geniale in quanto è la risposta ideale per tutti gli indignati. l’atto di sorridere su una morte qualsiasi e scandalizzarsi su di una celebre è la dimostrazione della vostra deficienza. andate su youtube e cercate “la sai l’ultima”, questo vi meritate.

91 • dudok24 ottobre 2011 alle 22:06

Siete vergognosi!
Vi cancello dai preferiti!
Merde!

Non si possono fare battute del cazzo sulle foto di Scarlett Johansson nuda, dopo che migliaia di persone sono morte.
Di seghe.

Stima eterna per Zerato, stupenda anche la risposta di Frandiben ai moralisti. Post magnifico.

94 • Naima8424 ottobre 2011 alle 22:24

@samu: ti ricorderò nei miei ringraziamenti da Stoccolma.. (Siamo parenti, vero? :P )

95 • Agnese24 ottobre 2011 alle 22:26

a ragà.. ma vaffanculo.. ma che cazzo significa che “la satira è satira e non risparmia nessuno”?!? è morto un ragazzo e non vedo proprio cosa cazzo ci sia da ridere!!! ma vergognatevi.. io nn sono “bacchettona” come dice qualcuno qua’ su.. semplicemente sono rispettosa, rispettosa nei confronti di chi è morto, della sua famiglia, dei suoi amici, e vivo la tragedia.. una tragedia che potrebbe capitare a tutti.. e non penso ci farebbe piacere vedere qualche coglione che scherza su una tragedia che ci tocca in prima persona. la morte è morte, e i morti meritano il loro rispetto, chiunque essi siano! non si deve scherzare sulla morte di Sic, come non si deve scherzare su quella di Jobs o anche su quella di Gheddafi! non è simpatico fare battute sui morti, è da COGLIONI, ergo.. siete dei coglioni!! vediamo se siete capaci a fare battute intelligenti su argomenti meno dolorosi!
SCHIFO!

96 • Beppe24 ottobre 2011 alle 22:28

La
Morte e’ morte e la satira e’ satira, a volte pero’ si potrebbe evitare…troppo facile fare battute del caxxo come quella del titolo, ridicoli voi e chi vi legge divertendosi…ammazzatevi voi e poi si fa un po’ di satira noi!

questo messaggio e dedicato a tutti i bastardi sfigati, emarginati sociali, figli di puttana senza palle,senza amici, k si sono permessi d ironizzare sulla morte di marco simoncelli. Perchè nn scrivete il vostro nome e cognome k magari ne parliamo insieme d persona. Com’è andare ogni mattina a scuola ed essere presi a mazzate e passare i sabato sera da soli davanti a un pc?? ahahahah come godo bastardi solo da un pc sapete parlare, il mio unico sogno adesso è vedervi per terra in autostrada e passare sopra di voi a 200 all’ora poi voglio vedere quanta voglia vi rimane d fare ironia.

99 • Vietcong24 ottobre 2011 alle 22:43

Titolo geniale: elegante come omaggio, efficace come scrematura dei rincoglioniti

100 • balanza24 ottobre 2011 alle 22:51

sono contento del low-profile sulla morte del Sic. La battuta migliore, evitando quelle stiracchiate.

“una risata vi seppellirà”

quindi, fatemi capire: se uno scherza(che poi questo non è nemmeno scherzare, sono commenti pungenti e critici sulla realtà che ci circonda, compresa l’eterna questione dello humor nero) sul terremoto in Turchia, sulla morte di Gheddafi o su qualunque altro evento luttuoso va bene, ma su Simoncelli no? La sua vita meritava forse più rispetto? Non sono una di quelli che si ergono a crociati del pensiero libero attaccando tutti quelli che compiangono il povero Simoncelli. Si può restare colpiti dalla morte di un ragazzo, anche se lo si conosceva poco. E’ insensato, piuttosto, celebrarlo solo in quanto morto. E non è rispettoso nei suoi confronti. Questo sì. Non c’è niente di irrispettoso, invece, nel parlare di black humor il giorno dopo la sua morte. Perché su quello che si fa ironia, non su Simoncelli, se non lo aveste capito.

102 • Banda della Bandana24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:03

@Nino “il vendicatore”
Com’è andare ogni mattina a scuola ed essere presi a mazzate e passare i sabato sera da soli davanti a un pc?
- – - – -

Pensavo ci fosse una regola che impedisse ai bimbiminkia minorenni di scrivere cose cattive.

Parlaci di te “Nino”. Siamo curiosi. Quanti ne hai ammazzati oggi?

103 • Marcello24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:03

…sul titolo: è talmente raffinato che:
1. alcuni non lo hanno capito e si incazzano
2. altri non lo hanno capito, ma sorridono per la grazia semantica
3. tutti gli altri lo hanno apprezzato e lo hanno interpretato a modo loro – cosa possibile quando esce una battuta perfetta

la mia interpretazione? è satira sociologica sui lettori al punto 1.

grazie spinoza

105 • Raximnec24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:13

ma quanti fan di Simoncelli tutti all’improvviso..scommetto sono gli stessi che hanno “sempre” amato Steve Jobs e “sempre” ascoltato micheal jackson
se proprio volete fare finta di essere rispettosi della morte potevate parlare dei 300 morti in Turchia, ben più gravi della morte di un singolo uomo

curioso poi, ad ogni post del genere, c’è gente che non segue più spinoza..ma allora perchè è stato nuovamente votato “miglior blog dell’anno”??
questo mi fa sperare che qualcuno con un cervello e delle idee proprie ci sia ancora..

106 • il Maggiore24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:20

Ho meditato questo post per qualche ora prima di scriverlo. Ho cercato di guardare il titolo con mente più fredda e lucida per non farmi cogliere dall’emotività.

Intendiamoci: di primo acchito mi sono fatto una grassa risata, poi mi si è gelato il sangue. E’ una bella battuta, lo riconosco, ma non riesco a gustarmela come forse meriterebbe. A vostro grande merito va riconosciuto che vi siete limitati al titolo, sottile e intelligente.

Qualcuno una volta ha detto che la satira è un connubio di tragedia più tempo. Sta alla sensibilità del satiro capire quando ne è passato abbastanza. Ecco, credo che per me ne sia passato troppo poco.
Ripasserò di qui quando avrò metabolizzato un po’ la questione. Sono certo che per allora, rileggendo il titolo, mi rifarò quella prima, liberatoria, grassa risata. E forse ricorderò Marco con ancora maggior affetto.

“Dio bò ragazzi, siete magnifici.” Avrebbe sicuramente detto questo Sic…

magari non c’entra ma io spero comunque che nel titolo ci sia anche un pizzico di Damiano Russo.

Grazie raga!

108 • Ghiro24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:42

Caro Harold, prima di parlare ed offendere i morti (tu e la tua “satira” di merda), vedi di iscriverti perlomeno alla scuola Radio Elettra. Supera un pajo di annetti e poi rifatti vivo (tu che puoi) sul forum.
Sottospecie di platelminta.

109 • Andrea24 ottobre 2011 alle 23:49

…Zyklon B, Zyklon B, Zyklon B…non si fà satira su innocenti seppelliti dalle macerie…merde…molti tra i vivi meritano la morte…molti tra i morti meritano la vita…è un VVF che vi parla…

110 • ste 224 ottobre 2011 alle 23:53

Qualcuno degli indignati speciali di cui sopra dovrebbe avere la gentilezza di rispondere alla seguente domanda: perchè è possibile ironizzare sulla morte di 300 turchi e non su quella di un romagnolo?

Attendo fiducioso…

p.s. tra l’altro, Sic sarebbe stato il primo a farsi una risata..

112 • Andrea25 ottobre 2011 alle 00:04

…tra le mie braccia hanno lasciato questo mondo una decina di persone (infarti, incidenti stradali, incendi)…non ne ho mai fatto un vanto nè mai commetterò un errore del genere…ripeto solo: non si deve fare satira su morti innocenti……………………..quasi dimenticavo…merde…

113 • ste 225 ottobre 2011 alle 00:18

@Andrea:

“non si deve fare satira su morti innocenti”

è chiaro che invece’ sti cazzo di turchi se la sono proprio cercata…

114 • Banda della Bandana25 ottobre 2011 alle 00:32

@Andrea:

Facci una Schindlers’s List dei soggetti tanto tanto cattivissimi sui quali possiamo far satira.

Gheddafi
Bin Laden

poi?

115 • zzod25 ottobre 2011 alle 00:34

Ah raga’, che palle..qui non si gioca sulla morte di persone + o – famose, si gioca sulla morte-punto.
I morti sono solo il mezzo..

116 • Danilo25 ottobre 2011 alle 00:56

Sono aquilano, terremotatissimo. Ed ho riso (e di gusto) alla satira sulla nostra disgrazia. Credetemi, per quel poco che è, mi ha aiutato.
La satira di cervello fa bene al cuore.
Sul titolo non credo sia così da oscar come dicono alcuni, però non lo censuro. Invece, devo dire che mi ha dato veramente fastidio qualche personaggio di quelli che popolano la pagina facebook che, per sforzarsi di fare sempre una battuta, finiscono col farla fuori dal vaso. Ma se li leggi per un pò, ti accorgi che sono sempre i soliti. E che lo fanno sempre. Quelle sono battute da vomito, ma per Sic (come per i turchi, o Jobs, o i “miei” morti..) non è nulla di personale: quella è la gente che uccide la satira. Un pò come chi impesta Nonciclopedia.

117 • Davide25 ottobre 2011 alle 01:17

Questa non è satira…consiglio a tutti i cabarettisti improvvisati di spinoza.it di andare a farsi delle ricerche sulla satira, perchè ironizzare sulla morte di un ragazzo di 24 anni e su un terremoto in turchia non è satira, è pura ignoranza e stupidità… sparare due battute a cazzo su un blog non ti rende un comico, e due battute a cazzo su un blog non sono satira, punto. Siete tristissimi, altrochè satira, la vostra è frustrazione…

118 • Chicca25 ottobre 2011 alle 01:17

Ho aspettato anche io per commentare ed è la seconda volta. Mi piace molto quello che ha scritto Il Maggiore. Come ha scritto qualcuno lassù, ognuno di coloro che l’hanno apprezzato hanno interpretato il titolo secondo la propria ispirazione (alla fine si tratta di morte). Io prima ho visto le ruote di Edwards poi ho amppliato la visione delle cose. La mia memoria, freschissima, visiva mi ha giocato forse un brutto scherzo. Ad ogni modo ha vinto l’ironia,
e vincerà sempre perché è forse l’unica cosa che puo’ mitigare la morte di qualcuno caro.

119 • Chicca25 ottobre 2011 alle 01:22

…scusate, intendevo mitigare la morte. punto.
ps, per me si tratta di ironia, trovare il lato ‘buffo’ delle cose più orribili, sorridere nelle situazioni impossibili perché te lo dice l’istinto di sopravvivenza, insomma sfidare la morte. (ok stoppo il trattato di pseudo-filosofia spicciola, ringraziandovi di cuore)

121 • Monica25 ottobre 2011 alle 01:53

non commento il resto che non ho letto (questo per anticipare chi potrebbe pensare che faccia distinzioni tra italiani e turchi)

122 • Davide25 ottobre 2011 alle 02:22

@Chicca: incoerenza a parte, non vedo cosa ci sia di buffo nella morte di simoncelli…boh, non lo so magari può illuminarmi lei…nei commenti in giro ne ho visto uno su cui si è accostato anche lo stesso spinoza e ne ha preso parte, un commento che più o meno suonava così: “O accettiamo che al mondo siamo tutti uguali oppure accettiamo di fare come fanno tutti quelli che diciamo (e spesso fingiamo) di odiare, ossia che i nostri personalissimi miti sono più uguali degli altri …ecc.”
1°: bisogna distinguere: l’uguaglianza dal punto di vista del diritto è cosa buona e giustissima, mentre citare e professare uguaglianza a cazzo in questo modo è una megacazzata, perchè ad esempio fra me e qualsiasi altra persona nel mondo c’è una differenza così grande che non può essere neanche immaginata.
2°Io credo che un pò di serietà, almeno su qualche argomento, sia doverosa…se si prende tutto come un gioco, come uno scherzo, si rischia di perdere contatto con la realtà, con conseguenze come questa : freddura pessima e relativa condanna sociale…
3° Zerato, visto che il titolo è tuo: se domani ti muore il babboo la madre, il figlio o la moglie o la fidanzata mi piacerebbe che potessi scriverlo qui su questo blog e farlo “commentare” dai tuoi amici di spinoza…poi magari potrai capire perchè la gente si è indignata tanto…

Sempre lieta di notare che per molte persone essere “buoni” voglia dire che alcuni morti sono di serie B e altri invece di categorie superiori.
Gli umani siete decisamente voi.
Sìsì.
Bravi tutti ragazzi <3

124 • Chicca25 ottobre 2011 alle 03:06

@Davide, non c’è niente di buffo nella morte, almeno io lo credo, di nessuno. Parlavo della morte, non di qualcuna in particolare. Il mio discorso è un po’ più ampio…

125 • saifu25 ottobre 2011 alle 06:30

suvvia ragazzi, un po’ di onestà intellettuale. spesso si fanno battute su alluvioni, guerre, terremoti, episodi dove i morti si contano a migliaia. e nessuno lì si sente offeso o in dovere di criticare. la battuta del titolo trovo sia un’esempio di humor nero estremamente elegante, e dal doppio significato, se vogliamo. pensate piuttosto all’operazione di sciacallaggio mediatico in atto in questi giorni, e pensate a cosa è veramente peggio. rifletteteci

126 • Peppe25 ottobre 2011 alle 07:14

A quelli che si “indignano” per la battuta su Simoncelli: perchè non vi “indignate” anche per il resto??

- anche l’alluvione a Roma ha fatto un morto;
- il terremoto in Turchia ne ha fatti centinaia;
- Rocco Siffredi ha ucciso la mia autostima.

Ma andate gentilmente a cacare.

127 • Peppe25 ottobre 2011 alle 07:15

p.s. ovviamente, grandissimo post, a me ha fatto sbellicare xD

La migliore:

Rintracciato l’hacker che ha diffuso le foto di Scarlett Johansson nuda. Spero per dargli il Pulitzer.

128 • Fabio25 ottobre 2011 alle 07:47

Non voglio discutere del titolo.

E a tutti quelli che ne stanno discutendo nei commenti dico solo una cosa: se davvero volete rispettare un morto, abbiate la decenza di tacere, piuttosto che venire a fare i moralisti e i presenzialisti qua.

130 • filipio25 ottobre 2011 alle 10:10

@ghiro: tu si che sei rispettoso delle persone!

@naima: complimenti!

per tutti i moralisti: tutte le volte che riderete nella vostra vita, assicuratevi prima che non sia implicata una persona che è morta, che soffre, che si sia ferita, o che sia discriminata in qualsiasi modo. Se controllate questa cosa sempre, avete tutta la mia stima, ma mi raccomando non valgono simpatie/antipatie o preferenze, gli uomini sono tutti meritevoli di rispetto, anzi ci aggiungerei anche gli animali e le piante: non potete ridere nemmeno se soffrono loro, dalla sofferenza non può nascere una risata, sarebbe una cosa abominevole…

131 • Dory del Sud25 ottobre 2011 alle 10:21

Leggo Spinoza da più di un anno ma non avevo mai commentato. Ora però sento l’urgenza di dire due parole a tutti coloro che vogliono fare la morale. Sarà che sono del Sud, dove è noto che non si prende mai nulla sul serio e finisce tutto con una suonata di mandolino, ma le volte che ho perso una persona cara, dopo il funerale ci siamo ritrovati, amici e parenti, a ricordare i momenti belli, facendo battute e scherzando sul comportamento che il defunto avrebbe tenuto di fronte al Giudice Supremo. Momenti in cui sono scappate risate epiche. Anche il morto si sarebbe divertito un sacco. E su, rilassatevi!

132 • Andrea "Tex" Tessadri25 ottobre 2011 alle 10:41

Pienamente d’accordo con Dory del Sud. Anche il sottoscritto ha perduto una persona cara di recente (mio nonno), ma non per questo avrebbe reagito in malo modo di fronte a un po’ di ironia. Personalmente (e non sono l’unico, nella mia famiglia), avrei reputato molto più fastidioso dover sorbirmi certi comportamenti pelosi di chi, non essendo conoscente (o essendosi sempre dimostrato falsamente amico) di mio nonno, si fosse prodigato in falsi cordogli senza nemmeno aver condiviso nulla con lui, così, tanto per “partecipare al nostro dolore” neanche ci fosse un ticket all’ingesso. Se si vuol moralizzare (se darsi alla bigotteria come in questo caso si può dire davvero moralizzare) allora bisogna moralizzare su tutto, in ogni momento della vita, e non solo quando lo si può fare restando impuniti o in nome di qualcosa di così labile (il diritto dei morti al rispetto? e che? qualcuno per caso ha razziato il corpo di Simoncelli durante il funerale?). Gli unici che hanno diritto a eccepire qualcosa sulla morte di chicchessia sono solo coloro che con la persona in questione hanno passato del tempo di qualità in prima persona (e aggiungerei che, in questo, pure la parentela di sangue conta poco). Chi scherza, lo fa con animo di scherzare, e per tal cosa non può risultare offensivo se opera facendo appello alla coscienza delle persone: cosa significa darsi a tale punte di cinismo, se non ricordare a tutti che i problemi sono tanti, che non è bello sciorinare condoglianze interessate nella morte, che la vita continua nonostante tutto? Certamente meglio che giorni e giorni di frasi di circostanza, per definizione senza alcun valore se non quello di mettere in risalto il volto di chi le pronuncia, come già troppi hanno fatto in questi giorni.

Bel post. SuperSic però è tosto anche da morto, anche per geniacci come voi. Il bello è che lui ci riderebbe su…e forse lo sta pure facendo.

135 • Mark Dalton (da Camden)25 ottobre 2011 alle 11:01

Siete all’apice, siatene contenti, migliaia di commenti per dire che siete bravi.

Ora c’è la discesa, le pecore belanti ed adoranti ora vi danno la gloria e ve la toglieranno presto.

Vendete i libri scritti da altri finché siete in tempo!

Ghiro, mi ero iscrito alla Radio Elettra, ma un giorno non prendeva, il giorno dopo prendei la scosa.

Psss: Ti ò denunciato alla Migros che loro vedono tuto anche quando sei nudo. Barbapapà

137 • New Trolls25 ottobre 2011 alle 11:30

Trovo vergognoso che Marco dalla Sardegna non abbia ancora postato le sue battute

139 • Alex25 ottobre 2011 alle 11:41

Come niente battute su Simoncelli caro pepegna? C’è il titolo dedicato a lui!!! Viva la satira!

141 • Corrado25 ottobre 2011 alle 11:45

@Luca • 24 ottobre 2011 alle 17:13
“Sic, ci avrebbe riso su. @critici: mi spiegate qual è la differenza tra sic e il morto nell’alluvione di roma?”
Nessuna.

144 • Ghiro25 ottobre 2011 alle 12:06

@ filipio: mandami un mp e vediamoci, così ti spiego meglio cosa vuol dire essere rispettosi.

146 • pete25 ottobre 2011 alle 12:14

e cmq c’e'modo e modo,andatevi a leggere cos’hanno scritto su nonciclopedia e..dio bo’,mica staro’dalla parte del vasco??e cmq,quella sulla turchia fa sganasciare..

147 • aledamilano25 ottobre 2011 alle 12:16

Per uno o una che vi elimina dai preferiti c’è qualcuno (io, per la precisione) che vi ha da poco aggiunti, recuperando tutti i post precedenti, con totale ammirazione. E che scrive per la prima volta.
Per favore, non smettete mai, perché siete bravissimi: io vi leggerò sempre, e continuerò a comprare i vostri libri. Ora qualche risposta ai messaggi precedenti:

- Brava Dory del sud: “la morte è un gesto ampio della vita” ha affermato un famoso poeta. Ed evito, per rispetto, di far notare la possibile ironia “vita/vista” se no ripartono certi attacchi

- Matilde: se rifletti meglio, il titolo glissa sull’argomento. C’è davanti un “NON”. Concordo con chi afferma che è un’ironia leggera e rispettosa. E che Sic l’avrebbe apprezzata.

- per Ghiro: “nolite mittere margaritas ante porcos”. E non è il tuo cocktail preferito

- per Andrea VVF che incita al gas dei nazisti (lo Zyklon B): “lascia, lascia, sto benissimo, mi alzo da solo, non fa male” (fa, peraltro, è senza accento in italiano)

- per Nino: quando ci passi sopra a 200 all’ora rallenta, un attimo prima. Per vedere in faccia il nostro boia. E un diritto, da secoli

Ma certa gente non può partecipare ai forum del Corriere, anziché infiltrarsi qua?

148 • mdp8525 ottobre 2011 alle 12:19

Dico la mia:

- non tutte le battute sono fatte per fare ridere. ci possono essere altri scopi come la critica politica o esorcizzare la morte. lo scopo della satira non è necessariamente fare ridere!
- in altri paesi vengono celebrati funerali in cui gli amici del deceduto fanno battute o raccontano episodi buffi. E’ rispettoso?
- la risata isitintiva che si trasforma alla prima riflessione in una sensazione di disagio è perfettamente normale (vedi L’Umorismo di Pirandello)
- se vi danno realmente noia le battute sui morti perché venite su spinoza.it che le fa sempre?
siete venuti per fare la morale? sfruttate i morti per far vedere quanto siete buoni voi con i vostri link retorici? è sciacallaggio questo?
- come mai quando sono morte quattro poveracce che guadagnavano 3 euro l’ora per sopravvivere non eravate così buoni? nessun link su fb?

forse è meglio che ognuno affronti la morte come meglio crede senza pretendere di dare lezioni agli altri cmq la foto di jovanotti mi ha fatto venire in mente lo squallido fotomontaggio delle cugine di Chiara di Garlasco.

150 • frandiben25 ottobre 2011 alle 12:24

come mai nessuna battuta sui bambini africani? paura eh? basta con queste morti di serie A e di serie B! ridiamo un po’ anche di loro!

151 • enigammi25 ottobre 2011 alle 12:28

non ho capito… spinoza ha fatto battute sui morti da sempre, si può fare battute sulla morte di tutti ma di simoncelli no? motivo?

w spinoza! bellissime!

152 • filipio25 ottobre 2011 alle 13:43

@ghiro:
per le spiegazioni ti aspetto fuori, cosi ti dò un paio di rispettosissime ripassate

153 • saràsereno25 ottobre 2011 alle 14:02

Addirittura 4 o 5 battute riferite a giochi di parole o simili…che tristezza, non ci siamo proprio, non vi eravate mai spinti così in basso

155 • zzod25 ottobre 2011 alle 14:28

credo che chi capisca la differenza tra comicita’ e satira capisca anche che sta ‘svongolando’ il cazzo alle persone sbagliate..chi non la capisce e’ un’ignorante.

..ed e’ in momenti come questi che addirittura rispetto Marco dalla Sardegna.

156 • Ginocchio25 ottobre 2011 alle 14:46

Mi spiace per la morte di Sic ma spero almeno che serva a toglierci dalle palle tutti questi moralisti che accettano di scherzare su giovani norvegesi morti senza ragione ma non accettano di scherzare su 1 giovane che sfidava continuamente la morte e che alla fine ha perso la sua sfida personale.

158 • filipio25 ottobre 2011 alle 15:24

@saràsereno:
perchè, le battute coi giochi di parole non vanno bene? c’è una nuova regola che non conosciamo?

@harold e ghiro:
ma facciamo incontri testa a testa o una bella mischia?

159 • Corrado25 ottobre 2011 alle 15:26

@ginocchio
il punto e’ proprio questo: scherzare su chi perde, chiunque perde, qualunque sia il prezzo della perdita, vuol dire voler vincere facile.
Non so voi, ma a me piace piu’ prendere per il culo chi e’ considerato vincente e potente che un terremotato.

161 • lolthedoctor25 ottobre 2011 alle 15:33

Mamma mia, la sfilza di amiconi di Sic, tutti in fila a lamentarsi.. Spinoza, quando moriro’, mi dedicate un titolo? Sarebbe il piu’ bel regalo per la mia morte.

162 • Corrado25 ottobre 2011 alle 15:36

@ filipio
“Satira” sta a “Gioco di parole” come “Conversazione” sta a “Bella giornata, vero?”

165 • Mark Dalton (da Camden)25 ottobre 2011 alle 16:21

Tutti a difendere Spinoza!

Oramai siete cultura popolare mainstream e come sanno bene i divini della televisione la vostra fortuna è oramai nelle mani del popolino volubile che oggi ti difende e ti acclama, il giorno dopo ti pugnala alle spalle.

Spinoza, hai i giorni contati. Oltre ad un non trascurabile calo della qualità…

166 • labestia25 ottobre 2011 alle 16:41

Ultimamente i commenti dei sorprendidos e di New Trolls sono di prima qualità. Belle risate.

167 • giulioCara25 ottobre 2011 alle 17:36

Penso che, scherzare o, ridere della morte (non dei morti) sia affrontarla con meno paura…inoltre ridere fa sempre bene…..quanto al “rispetto” di cui qualche commentatore scrive, personalmente ho piü rispetto per la vita….al contrario di qualcuno dei commentatori, pronto ad ammazzare; per rispetto al morto???Anche questa e’ una delle contraddizioni, di cui la satira si nutre…..Per Sic, dispiace a tutti lo stesso per ogni morto. Ma qui si ride della morte,, non dei morti. G. emigrante

168 • bicium25 ottobre 2011 alle 17:55

ho letto 167 post di insulti a caso, fatta da gente a caso che sembra abbia un legame di parentela col povero Simoncelli maggiore del fratello cosanguineo. E tutto questo strazio me lo potevo anche evitare perché cercavo una bellissima battuta di Marco della Sardegna che manco c’è

169 • Mark Dalton (da Camden)25 ottobre 2011 alle 17:55

1)Prendere “spunto” dagli altri per le proprie battute
2)Essere osannati

Vi ricorda qualcuno?

Insomma tra poco chiuderete! :D

170 • framarza25 ottobre 2011 alle 18:00

l’eleganza del titolo mi conferma la genialità di questo blog.

@Nosferatu: grazie, un riassunto perfetto dell’assurdità dei moralismi! :-)

171 • dallafranciaconamore25 ottobre 2011 alle 18:14

… non esistono battute morali o immorali, semplicemente ci sono battute divertenti e battute noiose…

173 • Corrado25 ottobre 2011 alle 18:34

Genialita’ del blog?
beh trovare qualche buona battuta in un mare di banalita’ non e’ genialita’: e’ statistica!

174 • mimmo25 ottobre 2011 alle 18:52

Spinoza non è unico nè solo.
Molti dicono che non è obbligatorio visitarlo.
Giusto. Addio.

175 • paoletta25 ottobre 2011 alle 19:12

molto rumore per nulla.
la satira è fastidiosa, un sassolino nella scarpa, una nota stonata. altrimenti che satira sarebbe?
tutto il resto è fuffa

176 • FiabaTek25 ottobre 2011 alle 19:29

A me piacerebbe far notare a tutti gli indignati che una persona che corre in moto sportivamente SCHERZA CON LA MORTE MOLTO Più DI QUALSIASI BATTUTA.
Poi basta retorica, che una volta nella vita tutti hanno ghignato su una battuta malvagia. Scommetto che se facessimo un post sulla morte del vostro “rivale” politico, sportivo o altro ridereste di gusto di una morte che voi non considerate degna di rispetto.
Poi se volete, quando morirò, autorizzerò tutti a ridere e scherzare, del resto, se volete una battuta “politically correct” non aspettatevelo dalla satira.
LA SATIRA è UGUALE PER TUTTI.
FiabaTek

177 • lucida25 ottobre 2011 alle 19:33

ma belle ,anche meglio di quelle del blog.
ma perchè non ci date una dose al giorno???
riguardo a chi si sdegna x la satira sulle tragedie,evidentemente pensa al fatto che ridere corrisponda a riderNe. non è così.e poi,nella satira lo scopo non è nemmeno far ridere,quello è solo un effetto collaterale.

178 • Luca25 ottobre 2011 alle 19:53

Quanto siete ipocriti… Spinoza non ha mai lasciato “in pace” nessun morto. Leggetvi i due libri pubblicati, con battute su Cossiga, o sulla morte di FoppaPedretti che riposa sotto l’albero delle idee. E non mi pare nessuno si sia scandalizzato. E che dire poi dell’ironia sulla strage in Norvegia? O la mitica: donna viene investita e partorisce. Tipo tubetto di dentifricio.
Anzi, mi meraviglio che non abbiate fatto un post più irriverente, come nel vostro stile. Nn avete risparmiate nessuno, e ripeto nessuno. Siete riusciti a fare satira sulla strage norvegese (e ho detto tutto!). Probabimente le stesse persone che urlano “venduti e merde” sono gli stessi che si sono sbellicati con il vostro post su Jobs, o su quello di Gheddafi. O quelli su Fukushima… Avete scherzato su tutte le tragedie, senza falsi moralisti, e proprio questo vi rende grandi. Continuate così e fanculo alle critiche.

ho letto il titolo, ho colto almeno almeno un triplo senso ed ho pensato:

Spinoza.it non si ritira!
e a quanto pare neanche Valentino Rossi

grazie della coerente e (come altri hanno detto) irriverente ma non irrispettosa satira

Marco sicuramene ne riderà delle “battute”…….
suo papà e sua mamma credo molto meno la sorellina probabilmente ne paingerà ……non sono un moralista non lo sono mai stato e non incomincerò adesso…..ma credo che sulla scomparsa di un ragazzo di 24 anni…..o di un altro qualsiasi essere non esista satira……ciao Marco

181 • Walter25 ottobre 2011 alle 22:04

Mo’ bbasta. Chi corre con le moto/auto sa quali rischi e pericoli va incontro. Sa qual è il brivido che dà l’andare così veloce. Cercano di non pensarci, ma sanno benissimo che può accadere.

Qui si fa satira e non sfottò. Non si prende in giro nessuno. Si vuole far pensare. Mi sta bene che ci si sdegni: voltate pagina, cancellatelo dai preferiti, create il gruppo “abbasso spinoza”, ma non venite a fare la morale.

I parenti tutti saranno distrutti dalla perdita di Sic, come lo sono i parenti di qualunque militare morto, tedesco mangiato, turco o aquilano terremotato, lavoratrice sottopagata coperta dalle macerie di un edificio, norvegese trucidato.
Pensiamo pure alle motivazioni che hanno prodotto questo, se era evitabile oppure no, se tutti sapevano prima (Sic compreso) che quello che è successo sarebbe potuto accadere.

Non vi va di riderci sopra? Bene, non era lo scopo desiderato. Non quello principale, almeno.
Non vi va neanche di pensarci?

Non ho certo intenzione di fare un dibattito quello che penso l’ho espresso…..come sempre del resto ….
non ho la pretesa di voler convincere nessuno……non ne abbiate voi……nel cercare di convincere me!!!! serena notte….Red

I vivi intimano di rispettare i morti offendendo i vivi.

Più che moralisti, questi mi sembrano deficienti (immaginate che parli con la voce dello scimmione del Crodino).

185 • thomas tosco26 ottobre 2011 alle 00:20

si scherza sulle ultime cose, non ci si può fissare ogni vota sulla satira suo potenti o su berlusconi come fanno vauro e luttazzi, per altro bravissimi: già lo fanno loro.
è normale considerare uno dei nostri e vicino uno come sic che era simpatico a pelle, in modo immediato e che era pure in televisione; ai tempi della prime elezioni nel 94 berlsconi chiese ai vari personaggi dei suoi canali di prendere posizione per lui e molte persone sentivano che era una persona loro amica, intima, che stava dava un affidabile suggerimento,visto che era ‘uno di casa’. chi si indigna per il sic è fatto così. o è anziano o è un poveretto.
il titolo lascia un pò di amaro, come le altre battute sul tema nei commenti: perfetto

186 • Banda della Bandana26 ottobre 2011 alle 01:09

@RED
non sono un moralista non lo sono mai stato e non incomincerò adesso…..ma credo che sulla scomparsa di un ragazzo di 24 anni…..o di un altro qualsiasi essere non esista satira
- – - – -

Ciao Red, anche io sono abbonato alla rivista “incoerenza&origami”.

187 • FABIO26 ottobre 2011 alle 01:24

…….TITOLO DA IDIOTI…….FATE SCHIFO………COMUNISTI DI MERDA…….
PER FORZA CHE L’ITALIA VA A ROTOLI ……..BASTA CON QUESTA SATIRA DEL CAZZO……..

188 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 01:30

@corrado:
vedo che esistono molti che hanno dei preconcetti sul fatto che si possano fare buone battute satiriche utilizzando giochi di parole, anzi mi pare di capire che i giochi di parole siano qualcosa di banale dalla tua proporzione. Liberissimi di pensarlo, mi dispiace solo che siete nati nel paese con la lingua più bella e intrigante del mondo e vi accontentate di usarla come se fosse l’inglese semplificato…

190 • Rossella26 ottobre 2011 alle 09:05

Difronte a tragedie come quelle di Simoncelli è una vergogna anche solo pensare di poter fare dell’umorismo. Chi lo fa è una persona di un livello che dire SOTTO ZERO è NIENTE.

191 • Jamba26 ottobre 2011 alle 09:16

Si dice “non c’è matrimonio dove non si piange e funerale dove non si ride” chi non ha provato questi due stati d’animo non può capire. La comicità nasce con la classica scivolata sulla buccia di banana, che per chi la subisce è una disgrazia, ma per chi vi assiste è un’impulso irrefrenabile alla risata; ma a chi non è capitato di ridere e contemporaneamente aiutare chi è caduto?

193 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 09:41

@filipio:
Come tu possa desumere le capacità linguistico-lessicali altrui da i post riportati qui sopra, è al di là della mia comprensione…rimane il fatto che una battuta basata su dei giochi di parole è banale, immediatamente riconoscibile, può venire in mente a tutti, non implica quello sforzo mentale necessario prima per costruirla (difatti, se ci ragioni sopra, non è possibile “costruire artificiosamente” un gioco di parole, arriva naturalmente) e poi, soprattutto, da parte del lettore per comprenderla. Saluti.

P.S. Il vocabolario inglese è formato da circa due volte e mezzo, tre, il numero di parole di quello italiano.

195 • aledamilano26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:09

@filipio scrive “Il vocabolario inglese è formato da circa due volte e mezzo, tre, il numero di parole di quello italiano”. E’ una cagata immensa, è proprio il contrario, accetto scommesse. L’italiano ha un numero immensamente maggiore di vocaboli perché è di diretta derivazione dal latino, quindi è molto piu antica.
Certo, se il paragone è col tuo vocabolario sono legittime conclusione come la tua

@ fabio: nel tuo commento manca solo il dito medio del tuo leader

196 • Alessandro26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:16

@saràsereno

Il vocabolario inglese contiene così tante parole perchè gli inglesi appena imparano una parola straniera la inseriscono nel dizionario e la usano storpiandone la pronuncia: summit è latino (non sammit, che schifo), pasta, pizza,etc. sono italiano: sono tutte presenti nel dizionario inglese.

197 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:27

@aledamilano
Quello che dice saràsereno e’ vero. Ti consiglio di informarti e studiare prima di fare affermazioni. Poi ci risentiamo. Niente scommesse. Come ho scritto sopra, non mi piace vincere facile.
@filipio
Se ti puo’ interessare, nel mondo anglosassone la battuta basata sul gioco di parole e’ considerata talmente semplice e banale che e’ diventata lo stereotipo della battuta che fa cagare: non si ride della battuta, ma di quanto faccia cagare.

PS Ragazzi miei, come si vola basso!

198 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:27

@aledamilano

La cagata immensa la stai dicendo tu, mi dispiace, informati meglio.
Come puoi parlare delle mie conoscenze lessicali dopo aver letto un post? È un puro e semplice pregiudizio.
E soprattutto impara a scrivere, ‘sono legittime’ non concorda grammaticalmente nel numero con ‘conclusione’.
Addio.

200 • Mark Dalton (da Camden)26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:39

@filipio i giochi di parole non c’erano od erano raffinati nel primo Spinoza, quello che non doveva accontentarvi, pecore belanti dietro alla moda di turno.

Decadence is now.

202 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 10:54

“Si temono infeltriti”
“Otto è mangiato”
“Gioco eretico”
“Magnifico erettore”
“Let teeth be”

Dai filipio, sii sincero, le trovi scarse pure tu…

204 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:02

@Alessandro
pensi davvero di poter liquidare le origini di una lingua e il numero di vocaboli che usa in tre righe di un post?
Aiuto!!! Dov’e’ l’uscita?

205 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:07

Che poi il ragionamento sarebbe corretto se gli inglesi avessero una loro parola specifica per indicare la pasta, la pizza, etc., e le usassero entrambe, ma dato che non ce l’hanno non vedo come altrimenti potrebbero chiamare tali alimenti. Mi dispiace, il ragionamento non fila.

206 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:08

@saràsereno
ora è chiaro: non hai nemmeno capito che la mia battuta era un gioco di parole (quella di Pannella, per la cronaca), visto che nella tua lista non c’è…
secondo me un gioco di parole è ben riuscito quando buona parte dei lettori non lo afferra; lo ritengo un metodo di selezione e pare che in questo caso abbia funzionato benissimo…

[...] pensato nell’immediato siti come Spinoza.it o Nonciclopedia. Il primo ha chiarito che “non si sterza sui morti“, ma unicamente nel titolo di un post dove Simoncelli non viene di seguito tirato in [...]

209 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:12

giusto un commento a chi osteggia i banali giochi di parole:

La mia battuta, dopo vari lab, era diventata:

“Delegazione radicale a casa di Berlusconi.
Serve per rigovernare.”

in cui ero arrivato a sfruttare il doppiosenso sia della parola “serve” nel senso di servitrici/è utile che della parola “rigovernare”.
Ho capito perchè ne è stata pubblicata una versione semplificata, è stata adattata alla capacità di comprensione del lettore medio :)

212 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:22

@giuseppe:
probabilmente non fa ridere TE… sai, ci sono altre persone nel mondo…

214 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:23

@filipio

Credersi più intelligenti degli altri è probabilmente il metodo migliore per dimostrare la propria stupidità. (cit.)

215 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:24

@filipio è questo il tuo lavoro? ci sono altre persone nel mondo che hanno qualcos’altro da fare …pensa io sono di passaggio e la penso così, radicalmente

217 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:27

Adesso anche il comico offeso che si mette a spiegare la genesi delle sue battute.
Non ci facciamo mancare proprio niente, eh?

218 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:28

E comunque quella sui radicali non è un gioco di parole come le altre battute, dove il presunto divertimento deriverebbe dall’assonanza di due differenti parole, bensì è basata sul fatto che la parola rigovernare sia un bisenso.
Per me la cosa è ben differente, difatti questa battuta mi era pure piaciuta, ma tu guarda.

219 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:32

@saràsereno

hai fatto un elenco tassonomico per dimostrarmi che i giochi di parole non fanno ridere e GUARDA CASO hai saltato l’unico gioco di parole che ho scritto io…
però poi sei attentissimo a replicare a quello che scrivo con puntualissime citazioni…
strana forma di attenzione selettiva…
però io la tua l’ho capita: mi stai dando dello stupido!
E te ne sono grato, le critiche costruttive fanno sempre bene!

@giuseppe:
sto anche lavorando nel frattempo

221 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:39

RIASSUMENDO, “non si sterza sui morti” bruttissima ..perchè perchè i morti non possono controbbbbbbbattttttere alla battuta allora io vi chiedo: “se vi dovessi mai incontrare vi posso investire?” bellissima perchè potete rispondermi.. non so magari mi dite di sì ma che prima vi nascondete dietro mia sorella!!!! NO? ADIEU2

222 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:39

Non reputo fondamentale il fatto che tu mi creda o meno, ma non ho ricompreso la tua battuta nell’elenco per il semplice fatto che, a mio parere, non era sullo stesso piano delle altre (in quanto a pochezza), tutto qui. E ti assicuro che per principio non guardo mai all’autore della stessa. Saluti.

223 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:41

@197
“Se ti puo’ interessare, nel mondo anglosassone la battuta basata sul gioco di parole e’ considerata talmente semplice e banale che e’ diventata lo stereotipo della battuta che fa cagare.”

No Corrado, non mi interessano le cazzate che ti inventi di sana pianta per tentare disperatamente di vincere facile. (cosa che pretenderesti di non fare. Ma la realtà è evidentemente un’altra)
Leggiti la voce “Pun” di wikipedia (o enciclopedia a tua scelta), per scoprire l’uso sconfinato dei giochi di parole nella lingua anglosassone, nel mondo della commedia, della letteratura, della poesia.
L’unica affermazione valida è che i giochi di parole non piacciono A TE. E sticazzi!
Rimanendo nell’ambito dell’italiano esiste un genere molto amato, il calembour, e autori che ci campano su (Bergonzoni su tutti), per non parlare degli enigmisti (ad esempio Bartezzaghi che li colleziona e li pubblica con discreto successo).
Quando il gioco di parole poi sfocia nel doppio senso (“Serve per rigovernare”, “Non si sterza sui morti”) o nel motto di spirito, allora si sfiora la poesia.
E se a voi non piace, ma siete qui con la disperata necessità di farcelo sapere, la nostra soddisfazione è ancor maggiore.

@Mark Dalton, davvero, mi dispiace sapere che ogni mattina ti svegli con la speranza di vedere Spinoza chiuso per fallimento ma constatare di volta in volta un maggior numero di iscritti e di fan.
Preparati ad altre cocenti frustrazioni per le tue profezie puntualmente disattese.

224 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:41

@filipio

Sì ma più fine. O sei geloso per non essere l’autore di “Let teeth be”?

225 • goccia26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:44

ma ogni occasione è buona per litigare? ridete e basta, che volete, battute da NOBEL? RILASSATEVI…..

226 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:49

Qui su spinoza non siamo gelosi delle battute, di solito ci scambiamo complimenti o consigli per migliorarle…

227 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:49

@filipio

Sarò prolisso, ma allora anche quella sui fori imperiali è un bisenso, eppure non mi sembra tu ti sia risentito per la sua mancanza nel sopracitato elenco.

229 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:56

@saràsereno:
forse non hai capito che qui nessuno è risentito, io ti ho fatto l’esempio con la mia battuta spiegandotene anche la genesi e le modifiche perchè le conoscevo in dettaglio, per farti capire che dietro quello che a te sembra un elenco di banali fesserie forse c’è qualcosa di più.

230 • Ernst Lang26 ottobre 2011 alle 11:56

titolo geniale, acquista ancor più efficacia se letto dopo tutti i commenti di moralisti&co, essendo la risposta perfetta alle vostre rimostranze.

se si volesse provare ad essere costruttivi, semmai, sarebbe bello discutere delle seguenti battute, che, per quanto divertenti (e a tratti, arguably, sublimi), non capisco cosa abbiano a che vedere con la satira:

Vagoni per sole donne
Otto è mangiato
Rocco ed il 30
Rocco magnifico erettore
Let teeth be

Da Wikipedia: La satira, storicamente e culturalmente, risponde ad un’esigenza dello spirito umano: l’oscillazione fra sacro e profano. La satira si occupa da sempre di temi rilevanti, principalmente la politica, la religione, il sesso e la morte, e su questi propone punti di vista alternativi, e attraverso la risata veicola delle piccole verità, semina dubbi, smaschera ipocrisie, attacca i pregiudizi e mette in discussione le convinzioni.

Ammesso e non concesso che questa definizione sia esaustiva, qualcuno mi vuole spiegare la ragione di queste battute all’interno dei post? In altre parole, non sarebbe forse meglio cambiare “Spinoza.it è un blog satirico collettivo” con “Spinoza.it è un blog collettivo di satira e comicità varia”?

ps. grazie frandiben e naima84! Turchia e Big Bang geniali :)

232 • New Trolls26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:06

ecco, direi che un lunghissimo battibecco su cosa sia o non sia la satira è proprio quello che ci vuole. Un argomento nuovo, finalmente!!!

233 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:06

@Ernst Lang

Ma stai scherzando vero???
“Let teeth be” è un’autentica stoccata per il povero John, chissà quanto ci metterà a riaversi…
…ah…
..è morto…
…gli hanno sparato???…
…e quando cachio di un cachio è successo???…

Dopo questa stronzata direi di chiudere qui, è stato divertente discutere un po’. ­¡Adios!

234 • Ernst Lang26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:20

@new trolls
e di cosa si dovrebbe parlare qui?

@saràsereno
scusa, sarò un po’ tardo, ma liquidare così la discussione, in modo sconnesso e arrogante, mi sembra un insulto a spinoza. ok, delle 5 battute che ho menzionato, quella su john lennon è quella “più satirica”. mi sembra molto debole, but fair enough, forse sono io che non riesco a capire il vero significato della battuta (e tu certo saràsereno non mi hai aiutato). però vorrei che qualcuno mi spiegasse le 2 su rocco. cioè, la satira deriverebbe dal fatto che rocco, una pornostar, ha incontrato degli universitari? intendiamoci, belle battute, ma è satira?

235 • saràsereno26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:23

@Ernst Lang

Ha-ha-ha, ero ironicissimo, talmente ironico che non si è capito!!!
Sono d’accordo con te su tutta la linea ;-)

236 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:23

@Ernst Lang
sono io che ringrazio te per i complimenti.
Sulla scelta di quelle battute ti rispondo dicendoti che la definizione di satira presente su Wikipedia ha una pesante matrice luttazziana, e che la satira può essere anche ben altro, e non solo una continua guerra contro chi è al potere.
Sia chiaro, non intendo dire che possiedo la definizione incontrovertibile di satira e che so distinguerla dalla comicità, ma ogni volta che ho sentito un tentativo di demarcazione subito dopo mi sono imbattuto in qualche autore satirico che sconfinava. E non so se gli si accendesse una spia che dicesse “Attenzione, ora ho smesso di fare satira, sono passato alla comicità”.
A me per esempio piace molto l’understatement (la sottovalutazione): parlare di un argomento nobile menzionandone un risvolto piccolo e insignificante.
O lo spiazzamento totale, il saltare da palo in frasca, sfruttando un impercettibile filo conduttore. La battuta sui vagoni per sole donne, a mio avviso, fa questo: abbandona l’argomento principale della questione (la rigida divisione in classi o sessi) per immaginare questa fantasiosa energia alternativa basata sul detto popolare, cercando di spiazzare il lettore.
Può non far ridere, si può persino ritenere immorale l’abbandono della questione seria e cruciale. Ma con la satira l’autore può anche mettersi in gioco e ridere della propria piccolezza (o del proprio egoismo, menefreghismo, ecc..)
Per questo motivo ritengo che anche nella satira ci sia diritto di cittadinanza per i giochi di parole.
Tuttavia se l’intera home page fosse tinteggiata a giochi di parole, credo che anch’io smetterei di definirla satira. Ma per il momento non credo sia così.

238 • GIM DAGLI OCCHI VERDI26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:28

Ma chi pensate di far ridere ?
Fate schifo all’umanità… voi e chi vi segue !
Ovviamente toglierete questo commento da buoni pavidi e comunistoidi quali siete…

239 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:29

@221 Giuseppe
Boh, provaci a investirmi.
Ma poi non lamentarti se ti mettono dentro, o se ti ritirano la patente.
E se invece riuscissi a svignartela mi basterebbe anche sapere che non ti sentiresti con la coscienza a posto. Perchè io invece dopo queste battute sento di avere la coscienza a postissimo. Se investissi una persona, no.
‘Non sterzare sui morti’ ha due chiavi di lettura. La prima l’avete capita tutti, ed è un po’ macabra, nessuno intende negarlo.
La seconda è “La satira” non deve sterzare sui morti. Perciò Spinoza non si tira indietro e pubblica battute che parlano di tragedie.

242 • Ernst Lang26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:44

@frandiben
grazie 1000 per le argomentazioni! in effetti, riflettendo sulle tue parole, mi è venuto da pensare a Rabelais e più in generale allo spirito carnevalesco e ai suoi legami con la satira. e ora mi è più evidente la liceità di tali battute in un post spinoziano. forse, la ragione per cui ho voluto sollevare la questione, è che quasi un terzo del post fa appello alla pancia piuttosto che alla testa. ma anche questo, a ben vedere, non è necessariamente una cosa negativa ;)

anyway, spinoza, grazie di esistere :)

243 • Michele26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:46

SATIRA E’ CIò CHE FA RIDERE. E QUESTE FRASI NON FANNO RIDERE A NESSUNO (ECCETTI POCHE PERSONE CULTURALMENTE POCO ELEVATE). SE NON FA RIDERE NON è SATIRA. E QUI A RIDERE SONO POCHI. LA VERA SATIRA E’ ALTRA COSA E NON HA BISOGNO DI ABBASSARSI A FARE BATTUTE DI POCO GUSTO. CHE SIANO SU GIOVANI O ANZIANI, FAMOSI O SCONOSCIUTI.

CHI VUOL FARE BATTUTE SU PERSONE DECEDUTE, LE FACCIA SU SE STESSO. RIPETO QUELLO DETTO DA MOLTI ALTRI. ” SE VI MORISSE LA FIGLIA..E NEI GIORNI SEGUENTI QUALCUNO CI FACESSE DELLE BATUTTE, COME VI SENTIRESTE? ..MA QUALE SATIRA E SATIRA… fate pena. Molte altre invece sono davvero divertenti e quindi faccio i miei complimenti. A presto

244 • New Trolls26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:53

satira è ciò che fa ridere!
e queste frasi non fanno ridere!
chi vuole fare battute su persone decedute, le faccia su se stesso. Ma solo se è deceduto!

246 • Michele26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:54

PS: in questo momento il grande CORRADO AUGIAS sul canale 3 sta parlandodell’ Anoressia, unproblema molto grave da combattere…questi sono i grandi scrittori, pensatori, giornalisti. Non quei poveri sfigatelli che si divertono (ma chi ride? boh…) a creare frasi prendendo i ngiro i problemi del mondo. Volete far Satira? bene…che sia costruttiva però. Che faccia divertire e poi pensare le persone. Qua invece solo tante battute di poco gusto. Ripeto: ma chi ci ride? Ah si giusto….Miglior Blog…. miglior blog ? non ci vuole molto. l’Italia è un paese di ‘gnoranti..saranno loro che lo avranno votato.

249 • Banda della Bandana26 ottobre 2011 alle 12:57

@MICHELE
SATIRA E’ CIò CHE FA RIDERE.
- – - – -

Beh, ma bisogna prima capire le battute. Tu oggettivamente parti svantaggiato.

250 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:02

239 • Frandiben, parli di satira ed hai preso la mia battuta come vera? secondo te mi vengo a scomodare per una persona che non conta nulla per me? La satira si fa sui vivi perchè i vivi possono rispondere alla satira …no? tu hai la coscienza a posto e pure io …per me invece fate satira sui morti per attirare opinione pubblica ..io lo chiamo sciacallaggio!! E poi come fai a chiamare battute che parlano di tragedie? che battute sono? e come se andassi a raccontarla a un funerale e pretendessi che qualcuno rida! piuttosto vi manca la fantasia ecco allora crederei ALLA VOSTRA STERZATA! e comunque non è detto che … visto che hanno provato che i neutrini vanno più veloci della luce voi dobbiate fare BATTUTE NOIR!! La coscienza è la vostra carissimi, la morte è vicina a TUTTI :) ridete ridete che tanto NON PASSA!!!

251 • Michele26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:02

ahahaha si può darsi. Ci rido…perchè so di non essere sce** . Ma falloa dire ad un Ritardato Mentale. Vallo a dire (che è magra) ad una ragazza anoressica che ha pochi mesi di vita. Qua ci sono solo persone che non si firmano (ma usano NICK)che scrivono su una pagina incuranti di come potrebberlo prenderla altre persone. E’ rispetto verso i propri simili secondo me. Ripeto, siete in pochi a ridere di certe cose.La grande maggioranza delle persone legge le frasi, ci fa un mezzo sorriso, e poi passa ad un’altra frase. Questo dimostra la bassa qualità di certe frasi. Se una fras eè davvero divertente, ne basta UNA SOLA per farti divertire davvero.

252 • Michele Moni26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:07

giuseppe, scusa,ma perchè fa ridere quella sulla sterzata? appena l’ho letta mi è rivenuto in mente il momento in cui un ragazzo fa passare la propria ruota sul collo di un altro coetaneo, ammazzandolo. Dov’è il divertimento ? era il gioco di parole la cosa divertente ?…se era cosi…allora…BASSA QUALITA’. Scusate vado a lavorare. L’Argomento mi ha preso molto e mi sono dilungato troppo :D

253 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:12

Vi do un consiglio, visto la vostra inclinazione, le scuse alla famiglia potrebbero essere prese come un battuta, quindi non fatele. Oppure impostatela come una STERZATA SULLE VOSTRE CAGATE!

254 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:15

252 • Michele Moni Qui tutti a far satira!!! Ma si finchè ci si piglia per culo!!! VERO SPINOZA? comunque era più bello SPINOSA!!!

255 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:24

Il corriere «Libia, la Nato resti fino a fine anno» e poi fino a pasqua ..non si sa mai risorga GHEDDAFI!!!!!

256 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:28

Giuseppe, non prendevo la tua battuta per vera.
Semplicemente ti prendevo per normale.

257 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:30

Lo sai che la gente normale va fuori di testa? e poi non c’è bisogno che mi prendi normale anche GASSATO la penso così

258 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:34

lo sai che una volta pensavo che SPINOZA fosse un adesivo che se lo mettevi nel vetro posteriore della macchina e per strada facevi un dito in culomb ti fermava un incaricato e ti regalava mille euro!!! ce l’avete ancora l’adesivo? me lo regalate?

259 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:41

E ora abbiamo anche il Frandiben che manganella (223).
Caro mio, se non ti interessano i fatti che riporto ci posso fare poco.
Vieni a Londra, seguiti i programmi satirici per 14 anni, vai a vedere le performance dal vivo e poi torna a dirmi quali sono i fatti.
Con una battuta sulla linea di “Serve per rigovernare” e “Non si sterza sui morti” qui il pubblico di un comico satirico si alza e se ne va.
Al Bagaglino restava.

260 • Lorenzo26 ottobre 2011 alle 13:44

Sul titolo: Penso che questo titolo sia il più rispettoso possibile. Non citarlo in post ma riservandogli il titolo (la cosa più importante), visto l’eco di ciò che è successo e tutte le possibili battute e polemiche sui soccorsi in pista, lo trovo rispettoso. Se non lo avessero nominato, probabilmente ora la polemica verterebbe sull’averlo ignorato completamente (come qualcuno già fa per l’assenza di battute specifiche).

Sulle discriminazioni: In Spinoza ho sempre visto scherzare, con ironia, sul morto o sui morti, che questi fossero dovuti a disgrazie (es. terremoti) crimini (il turista tedesco…) o, per quanto poco possa essere condivisibile questo punto di vista, ad infortuni sul lavoro (lavoratori, soldati, sportivi come Sic, etc). Trovo invece fuori luogo fare discriminazioni, perchè riesco a vederle solo in questo modo, tra la morte accidentale di un ragazzo fantastico come Simoncelli e le altre postate sinora, sia relative a personaggi famosi che meno. Forse quest’ultima ci “tocca” maggiormente, perchè è italiano, perchè appunto amato da tutti ed odiato da nessuno, e per chissà quanti altri (validi) motivi. Ma questo, solo perchè non avevate lo stesso rapporto, seppur mediatico, con gli altri morti di cui si è scherzato. Se al posto del velista tedesco ci fosse stato Soldini?

Sulla satira: non è fatta solo per far ridere. E’ teatro. E’ commedia e tragedia, è anche riflessione, in forma ironica. Quindi, a titolo personale, ritengo giusto che si “scherzi” anche sulla morte.

aaah ma qui si torna a parlare dei famosi “limiti della satira”. Chi è il ragazzo dai sani princìpi a sta botta? No perché mi fermo a commentare perché non ho di meglio da fare ma allo stesso tempo sono pigro. Quindi gli do ragione: non è bello prendere in giro la morte, altrimenti ci fa morire assai di più.
Io quando muoio voglio che si facciano molte battute ma non tanto perché sono autoEronico, ma perché mi piacerebbe (non avverrà, è un privilegio troppo grande).

262 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:15

pensa Lorenzo m’ha aperto gli occhi ora che so che SPINOZA fa satira sui morti …mi fa ancora più schifo!!

264 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:20

@259
Corrado, se tu chiami ‘manganellare’ il far cantare un po’ di carta documentata che smerda le tue affermazioni basate sulla tua personale visione del mondo, sul sentito dire, sul ‘vieni a londra’ ecc…, allora chiamiamolo come cazzo preferisci.
Il punto è che io di spettacoli in lingua inglese ne ho visti oltre un centinaio (sottotitolati, non parlo inglese fluentemente. Su Comedysubs ad esempio se ne trovano di ogni forma e dimensione). E sui sottotitoli spesso i traduttori sono costretti a scrivere “gioco di parole basato sul significato di BLABLABLA”. Per permettere anche a me, che non sono perfettamente padrone del lessico inglese, di comprendere la battuta.
E intanto sulla pagina “Giochi di parole” della Wikipedia inglese continuo a leggere (tra i tanti, davvero tanti) i nomi di Joyce, Shakespeare, George Carlin. Non ci facciamo mancare nulla.
Altro fatto incontestabile (ma è evidente che tu sei allergico alle argomentazioni dimostrate e vivi in un mondo in cui esiste solo la tua opinione) io noto solo che il pubblico rimane seduto, anzi, lo vedo accumularsi.

265 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:36

ma perchè bisogna guardare i comici inglesi per la satira? non siamo capaci d’esser più spiritosi di quei morti viventi? qui la battuta si può fare perchè seppur morti VIVONO

267 • Danilo26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:38

Non ho altre parole per chi si lamenta della battuta su Simoncelli se non: Mavaffanculo! Siete proprio l’archetipo di Italiano medio: bacchettone alla cazzo di cane.

268 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:50

bravo Danilo! tira fuori gli argomenti!!!! e tu a che gradino dell’Italiano stai?

269 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:52

nooooooooooooo SPINOZA copia le battute!!! ed io pensavo fosse un’altra MUSICA!

270 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 14:58

@Frandiben
consiglio camomilla e buone argomentazioni.
Il turpiloquio fa solo capire che stai perdendo le staffe. Non buono per chi vuol fare satira.
Mi sembra di capire che ritieni le tue argomentazioni superiori alle mie.
Insomma ritieni di potere “smerdarmi” sulla base di spettacoli inglesi che hai visto sottotitolati in italiano.
Ti lascio volentieri tutte le tue convinzioni.
Ciao

Caro Corrado, prima di tutto grazie per le preziose informazioni sulla satira anglosassone e sulla lezione di “ciò che è satira e ciò che non lo è”, basata sulla tua pluridecennale esperienza di spettatore. Ciò premesso, vorrei farti notare un paio di cose. Stiamo/stai commentando un post di “Metadone”, rubrica di Spinoza basata sulle notizie “minori” o “curiose”; quindi perdonaci se le battute su un dente di John Lennon, o su Rocco Siffredi alla Sapienza, o sull’uomo mangiato dai cannibali non fanno riflettere sui massimi sistemi, non attaccano “il potere”, non includono la parola “Berlusconi” e fanno storcere il naso ai puristi. Ma tant’è. Tanto più che su Spinoza non sei costretto a sganciare 25 sterline per lo spettacolo. Questo non significa che tu non sia libero di criticare le battute, ma nel farlo dovresti cercare di non perdere di vista il contesto e lo spirito della rubrica. Per ciò che riguarda lo stile (doppisensi, giochi di parole ecc.) stiamo parlando di fuffa. Sono sempre stati usati dai grandi artisti come Hicks, Carlin, anche solo per dare un ritmo (per ammorbidire una battuta pesante appena detta, o per preparare il terreno ad una battuta molto cattiva) in molti spettacoli che -probabilmente- non hai visto. A quanto mi risulta non esiste alcun divieto scritto di adoperarli in un determinato contesto, purché non se ne abusi. Ciao.

274 • bicium26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:18

Secondo me Giuseppe è da un po’ che non va a cagare… Sei troppo nervoso, rilassati. Le morti, le stragi e gli avvenimenti in genere sono presi di mira da Spinoza e trasformati in qualcosa di strano, grottesco e quasi esilarante, ma da anni… Se ti sei svegliato oggi con sta storia, smettila pure. Spero ti passi ‘sta follia. Errare è umano, perseverare è diabolico… Qui chiudo il mio parere. Non ho voglia di essere trascinato in altre discussioni, anzi per favore continuate a parlare del significato di satira, mi interessa davvero.

275 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:30

Bicium del bocium, diciamo che sono regolare, ti sono sembrato NERVOZO? “Trasformati in qualcosa di strano” ???? non dirmi che hai visto il signore degli anelli? Ti sembra una discussione la mia? secondo me sono solo battute e la mia perseveranza è la stessa di quella dei comari SPINOZI!! e se ci iahi visto del nervoso …sono la calma in persona …quasi mi sciolgo da quanto sono calmo!!! ;)

276 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:33

Mica è colpa mia se solo ora conosco la combricola SPINOZA!!! se lo sapevo l’adesivo dietro l’auto lo mettevo prima!

Oggi non mi va di lavorare, c’è Giuseppe da leggere.
@bicium: no basta con sta cosa di cos’è la satira. Anzi, facciamo che la satira è zelig e noi siamo solo “quelli che si divertono a prendere in giro i morti” (cit. di cit. di cit.) così Giuseppe è contento e Gesù non piange.

278 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:36

E poi un giorno QUESTO UN GIORNO QUELLO, bisogna dare soddisfazione un po’ a tutti ….NO?

279 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:40

@Corrado
Se le dispute verbali fossero un videogioco tu saresti la versione demo.
Ora presupponi che il turpiloquio significhi che sto perdendo le staffe. Sapessi invece :)
Poi sostieni che il turpiloquio non è buono per chi vuol fare satira. Ora non sono solo io a ridere di te, ma anche Lenny Bruce, Carlin, Hicks. E mi fermo a questi tre.
Ma quali satiri e comici anglofoni hai visto? Mr. Bean? (A proposito, ora che ci penso Rowan Atkinson ha realizzato uno spettacolo STRAPIENO di turpiloqui. Si chiama LIVE. E questa si chiama ‘argomentazione’. Il tuo invece si chiama ‘personalissimo punto di vista’).
Come vedi inoltre sto controargomentando il tuo personalissimo punto di vista secondo cui io non fornisco ‘buone argomentazioni’.
Di buone argomentazioni io ne ho messe: fonti documentate (articoli di wikipedia, nomi, cognomi, generi letterari) che qualunque passante può andare a consultare per vedere se sto dicendo una cosa condivisibile o se mi sto inventando una cazzata.
Tu invece? Hai fornito qualche valida argomentazione a sostegno della tua tesi “nel mondo anglosassone la battuta basata sul gioco di parole e’ considerata semplice e banale”? Non mi pare.
Se un lettore vuole verificare l’esattezza di ciò che dici, che strumenti gli fornisci?
“Vieni a Londra”. Tutto qui?
Un po’ pochino. Si capisce benissimo che si tratta di una stronzata standosene seduti su un pc. Devi fare di meglio.
Riassumendo: io non ritengo le mie argomentazioni superiori alle tue. Io le tue argomentazioni le sto ancora aspettando.
Ora invece mi lascerò andare ad una affermazione priva di argomentazioni, ma solo di indizi: sei un poveraccio che cerca solo un po’ di protagonismo, ma stai giocando co argomenti che non sei assolutamente capace di maneggiare.

280 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:42

Se la satira fosse Zelig, forse questo mondo si divertirebbe di più a piangere e MastroMutteè è contento se io sono contento e Gesù Gepiù …non sono mica qui per farmi contento! Mi basta uscire e vedere un morto per strada!!! ahahahahaha questa ci stava!

Ah ma allora è vero che sei qui per divertirci. E io che pensavo fosse una cosa involontaria.
(fossi in te eviterei di paraculare Gesù, solo perché lui risorge e Simoncelli no, vergogna).

282 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:50

In fondo la satira la capiscono solo le persone COLTE ed io purtroppo sono …LUNGO!

283 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:53

Mastro Mest ..ruo …di la verità ti ha influenzato la mia precedente su Gheddafi …vero? comunque sì sono involontario, non sono stato reclutato

284 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 15:56

e poi l’hai visto per strada Gesù? sicuramente una STERZATA degli SPINOZA l’avra fatto decedere definitivamente

285 • New Trolls26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:00

io comunque sto partendo per l’inghilterra per vedere se corrado ha ragione. Devo venire per forza a londra o va bene un posto qualsiasi?

287 • bicium26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:09

Ok, niente discussione sulla satira, ci sta in fondo. Prima volevo solo ribattere a certe assurdità. Ma si sa che certe cose sono infinite e non mi riferisco all’universo. Oltretutto la satira in quanto tale è diversa in ogni paese e trovo poco intelligente decidere quale è la migliore. Preferivo un dibattito fatto di citazioni, tipo questa per me è la migliore, no per me è questa… Ma niente, una gara all’assoluto. Che ovviamente è inarrivabile. Soprattutto se si parla di culture diverse a confronto… Niente, oggi non si impara niente.. ci si mangia la faccia vicendevolmente…

289 • elena26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:14

E’ stata fatta una battuta che qualcuno trova becera e di cattivo gusto? Pazienza, non è mica morto nessuno.

290 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:15

@Frandiben

impara da giggi come affrontare il pubblico (grazie giggi, cerco di troncare se mi levo sto frandiben dalle palle).
Visto come offendi penso che su un palco resisteresti 2 o 3 minuti, poi o scappi o ti tirano i pomodori.

Ho detto che perdere le staffe non e’ buono per un comico, non il turpiloquio.

Argomentazioni:
Vai e studia

Dara Ó Briain
Russell Howard
Michael McIntyre
Frankie Boyle
Andy Parsons
Jo Brand
Paul Merton
Ian Hislop

Live at the Apollo
Have I got news for you
Mock the Week

Ciao

291 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:20

i comici più grandi sono gli imitatori, vi consiglio una buona STERZATA! scusate ma alla fine se non volete vedermi scrivere potete bloccarmi ..comunque prima che diventi una faccenda SPINOZA! per il perseverare ..che poi è diabolico, come certe battute… vi ZALUTO e vi AUGURO STERZATE MIGLIORI!!!! bel lavoro REGAZ! aspetto l’adesivo

292 • New Trolls26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:21

Io conosco Russel Crow, Michael Jackson, Danny Boyle, Alan Parsons, Jo Squillo, Paul McCartney, Ian Page e nessun Dara.
Va bene i’ stess’?

Ah anche Apollo Creed

293 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:23

e poi… come ultima battuta …TROPPI BAMBINI E GIOVANI MUOIONO E NOI SIAMO GOVERNATI DA VECCHI CHE RIDONO DELLA NOSTRA SATIRA, PERCHÉ LORO SONO ANCORA VIVI. COSÍ È LA VITA. cit. dal diario dei Puffi edizione 1984

297 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:36

Corrado ….suvvia gli INGLESI? ….daiiii, a me oltre i sottotitoli ci vuole pure la boldra che con una piuma mi fa il solletico!!!!!

Scusa bicium, non voglio smorzare nulla, è che non sai quante migliaia di volte se ne è parlato ogni qual volta arriva lo splendido con la riga al lato che dice “eh eh eh non si fa così”e non s’è risolto mai niente.
Quando da piccolo ti dicono che se ti fai le pippe diventi cieco e fai peccato mortale (conseguenza del fatto che ti convincono che lassù c’è un individuo invisibile che vede ognuno di noi abitanti della terra 24h al giorno e si segna tutto) poi o ti fermi a riflettere e ti fai l’idea che non può essere il sesso una cosa tanto spregevole, oppure cominci ad accumulare sensi di colpa fino alla psicosi nascondendosi tra le fila dei puntatori di ditI. Se continui a ripetere che la morte non è da meno agli altri tabu che la satira deve colpire, chi non vuole capirlo non lo capirà mai, perché? boh, forse perché mostrare dispiacere fa bravo ragazzo, o addirittura figo. A me roderebbe se sapessi di dover morire, ma non mi dispiacerebbe essere usato per “picconare” qualcosa di molto più enorme di me. Poi vabbè, gli abusi ci sono. Con questa scusa alcuni si mettono a far battute sulle tette dei morti, quello lasciamolo al baretto della comasina. È una cosa molto diversa. Divertenti invece sono questi che arrivano, non capiscono quello che leggono e augurano le morti dei più cari agli autori, o semplicemente trollando, ponendosi a livelli assai più bassi.

299 • fredbello26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:51

I troll, i provocatori, quelli che s’attaccano come cozze agli scogli in cerca di un po’ d’attenzione, sul web li trovi un po’ dappertutto. Figurati se un corpaccione come Spinoza, con la sua ormai enorme visibilità, poteva esserne indenne. Anzi. Se ci aspettiamo orde di assatanati in crescita ci risparmieremo anche la fatica di una minima sorpresa.
Il guaio è che a noi ce fate divertì, mannaggia :)

300 • bicium26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:51

@MestMuttèe

Ovviamente non ce l’avevo con te. Trovo che quel che dici sia giustissimo e condivido.

301 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 16:59

(Scusate per la lunghezza del presente intervento, ma non c’è una sola affermazione di questo Corrado che non sia una strepitosa cazzata. Quindi mi serve spazio).

1)
Palco?? Chi ha mai parlato di palco?? Nessuno mi ha mai fatto un complimento così^^ thnx.
Scusami se affronto un pubblico in maniera differente da giggi (che stimo tantissimo), ma sai com’è, ognuno si atteggia a modo suo, è il bello della diversità. E ho il leggero sospetto che tu preferisca un rigoroso allineamento di pensiero.
E soprattuto lo stai apprezzando soprattutto perchè ha avuto pietà di te.

2)
Ti faccio notare che tu verso di noi hai usato i termini:
- sciacallo (134)
- qui non c’è genialità, ma solo statistica (173)
- ti consiglio di studiare prima di fare affermazioni (197)
(un bel consiglio che tu hai puntualmente disatteso).
- dicendo “comico offeso” (217) hai presupposto qualcosa che esiste solo nel tuo universo fantasy
- ci dai del “bagaglino” (259)
Poi pretendi di non essere sbeffeggiato? Ma tu andresti preso a calci in culo finchè non ti sanguina il naso.

3)
Riconosco che finalmente hai fornito un po’ di argomentazioni, e non credere che non mi faccia sfuggire quei nomi, io prendo nota e studio davvero.

Ma sei imbattuto in un EPIC FAIL che mi fa pensare:
- che sei semplicemente un troll
- che tu di questi spettacoli conosci soltanto i titoli (e nemmeno li sai tradurre)
- che tu a malapena sappia dove sia Londra.

a) Mi citi una trasmissione che ha NEL TITOLO un voluto gioco di parole!!! (Mock the week = Mock the weak, deridi il debole). Cosa che tra l’altro negavi di voler fare (@159). Ma ti piace tanto la trasmissione con un titolo così.
Ecco l’argomentazione: (http://thumb2.mixcloud.com/w/300/h/300/q/85/upload/images/extaudio/b6f5390c-7420-417d-98ce-277fbcd8700d.png) Non c’è solo questa. Ne trovi davvero tante.
E ammesso che sia un’immagine parodia (mi informerò su questo)… è stata realizzata da ANGLOFONI!

b) Scopro che in I have got news for you c’è un’intera sezione (Round 2) basata sui giochi di parole!!! (leggere su Wikipedia per credere… c’è scritto “pun-filled” tabloid headlines). Ah, ti faccio notare che queste si chiamano ‘argomentazioni’.
E dovevo venire a Londra per vedere dei volgarissimi giochi di parole???

Ho capito, vuoi sbarazzarti di me facendomi ridere a crepapelle. Nice try :D

4)
Poi vedo che hai terribili carenze anche in fatto di logica proposizionale. O semplicemente fai il finto tonto sperando che ti vada bene. Perchè io non ti reputo scemo, ma solo un furbacchiotto a cui oggi è andata male.
Puoi anche cercare disperatamente di citarmi un nutrito numero di spettacoli privi di “giochi di parole” (e non ci sei nemmeno riuscito. Cazzo, uno ce l’ha nel titolo!!!). Ma ciò non significa che non posso sbatterti in faccia degli spettacoli che fanno un enorme uso di giochi di parole. (Life is worth losing, George Carlin). Il fatto che io lo abbia visto sottotitolato o meno, non inficia di una virgola l’esistenza dei ‘puns’.

Se hai bisogno di altre umiliazioni mi ritrovi stasera.
Nel frattempo studia!

302 • Giuseppe26 ottobre 2011 alle 17:24

Ma scusate se nessuno ce l’ha con nessuno e io vengo classificato come TROLL…di cosa si discute? aaaaaaaaah dell’interessantissimo tema sulla satira INGLESE, non l’avevo capito …sai il titolo porta un po’ FUORI STRADA!!!!!

303 • Mark Dalton (da Camden)26 ottobre 2011 alle 17:51

Frandiben scrive due battute e poi scirve studia…

Decadence is now.

304 • Corrado26 ottobre 2011 alle 18:14

Ragazzi, non vi annoio con la risposta a Frandiben.
Purtroppo l’ha presa sul personale. Mi dispiace.

Allora facciamo cosi’

Caro Frandiben, amatissimo Frandiben,
visto che di cantonate ne hai prese almeno tre nella tua risposta, mandami una email (nel vostro sistema deve essere da qualche parte il mio indirizzo) cosi’ ti spiego con calma.

Un abbraccio

305 • Alessandro26 ottobre 2011 alle 18:25

In tutta onestà, il titolo di questo post mi ricorda una battuta fatta da Luttazzi poco dopo la morte di Giovanni Paolo II: “Il Papa è morto. Poi è peggiorato”. Non c’è naturalmente bisogno di spiegarla agli utenti affezionati di questo sito, ma dal momento che mi pare di capire che a leggere qui siano anche quelli che guardano il dito del saggio, mentre questo indica la luna, mi permetterò di spiegare che la battuta non era rivolta contro il Papa, ma contro certo pseudogiornalismo ed opinionismo da quattro soldi che, già alcuni giorni prima che il Papa morisse, partirono a tesserne l’elogio funebre con i famosi servizi “coccodrillo”, sparando sciocchezze, sciorinando bibliografie ed incensandolo con vuote affermazioni retoriche, tutto questo prima che ci lasciasse davvero. Mi unisco dunque alle voci che qui sopra esprimono apprezzamento per il titolo, e credo che la battuta non sia “su” Simoncelli, ma sia rivolta contro tutto quello schifo mediatico che ci potrebbero montare sopra, contro la retorica delle varie D’Urso, dei vari dott. Meluzzi e di tutti gli altri opinionisti e perbenisti, che in televisione si esprimono su qualunque cosa non avendo gli strumenti adatti, né la qualifica per farlo (e quindi se devo stare a sentire l’opinione di un signor qualunque su un argomento di attualità tanto vale che spenga la televisione e chieda al postino): quella retorica meschina che appiattisce le opinioni e le banalizza, quella semplificazione delle cose volta ad ottenere audience, e non ad informare correttamente così da fornire mezzi per crearsi un’opinione chiara delle cose, è il bersaglio dei nostri meravigliosi autori satirici.
E’ morto un ragazzo, ed è morto in un modo orribile, e la televisione ci ha proposto più e più volte consecutivamente quella scena agghiacciante in cui lo abbiamo visto strisciare sulla pista, perdere il casco e restare lì per terra: è a questa gentaglia che cerca lo spettacolo a tutti i costi anche con i mezzi più biechi, a questi che si definiscono giornalisti e che altro non sono se non manipolatori di tutto e tutti, che si rivolge la raffinata battuta che apre il post: sono loro che “sterzano” sui morti.

306 • Alessandro26 ottobre 2011 alle 18:28

P.S.: ovviamente volevo dire “sciorinando biografie”, e non “sciorinando bibliografie”….Un piccolo lapsus causato dallo studio ;-)

308 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 19:48

Dunque Corrado:
1)
se tu dicessi “Il sole è blu”, il fatto che io mi sbracci per sottolineare che è una stronzata non significa affatto “prenderla sul personale”. Significa avere rispetto per la verità.
In realtà tu hai asserito (197) “nel mondo anglosassone la battuta basata sul gioco di parole e’ considerata semplice e banale”. Affermazione che per me ha un valore di verità esattamente uguale a “il sole è blu”.
Ti ho portato numerosi esempi di satira, comicità, poesia e letteratura anglosassone (e anche italiana) per dimostrarti che la tua asserzione è priva di fondamento. E non ho menzionato illustri sconosciuti, ma ti ho parlato di Shakespeare, James Joyce, George Carlin. Ciascuno una pietra miliare, anzi LA pietra miliare nel rispettivo campo!
Questo significa prenderla sul personale? Non direi.

2)
Per quel che riguarda l’enumerazione delle mie cantonate, ti dico che non ho alcun controllo su questa sezione commenti, nè mi va di andare a chiedere il tuo indirizzo di posta a chi può averlo.
Facciamo “All-in”, elencamele pure qua. Ci vieni a vedere?
Non preoccuparti di annoiare gli altri, tanto sono tutti a leggere la pagina 12 di Metadone (con altri gustosissimi giochi di parole e doppi sensi, due dei quali in apertura e chiusura: i posti d’onore), perciò ho motivo di credere che non infastidiamo nessuno.
Sentiti libero di essere prolisso e particolareggiato. Sentiti libero di dedicare un messaggio per ciascuna cantonata. Se la discussione è costruttiva e si può apprendere qualcosa non vedo perchè dovremmo annoiare.

3)
Ti consiglierei solo di evitare, se ci riesci, gli espedienti dialettici del tipo “ecco il comico offeso, arriva lui a manganellare, prendi una camomilla, l’hai presa sul personale”. Chi li adopera cerca disperatamente di arruffianarsi un’eventuale platea. Quella platea adesso non c’è più, non hai più nessun lettore a cui strizzare l’occhio con questi trucchetti da quattro soldi.
Evitali anche perchè sono tue supposizioni del tutto sbagliate, e mi sento costretto a smontartele una per una, facendo perdere tempo, e non arricchiscono minimamente l’eventuale utilità della conversazione, che sarebbe stupendo se riuscissimo a limitarla ai “puns” (o alle mie tre cantonate).

Ripasso quando posso e leggo, sono curioso.
(Anche se ho abbassato i toni ciò non toglie che continuo a reputarti come ho già detto: esattamente come reputerei chiunque venga a dirmi con supponenza che il sole è blu)

309 • fra dolcino26 ottobre 2011 alle 20:11

E’ chiaro che in tutta la marea di battute che vengono
spedite al sito ci sono battute molto riuscite (una piccola parte)
e altre meno riuscite o banali (la maggior parte),
ma le sole battute riuscite sono sufficienti a strappare
qualche risata (amara o di pancia) e a far passare
10 minuti con spensieratezza.
Pretendere come fanno alcuni che tutte le battute siano
di livello elevato è assurdo, e d’altronde permettere solo
ai più bravi di scrivere sul sito secondo me è sbagliato
(si perderebbero delle perle che di tanto in tanto vengono
in mente al frequentatore occasionale e si impedirebbe la
crescita in qualità dei post).
Su cosa sia esattamente la satira e di cosa si debba
occupare Spinoza francamente non saprei dire ma, riguardo
allo scopo del sito, trovo
interessante la proposta di Ernst Lang: Spinoza si occupa
di satira ma anche di comicità varia.
Riguardo al fatto di poter scherzare con la morte degli
altri, penso sia legittimo, però vorrei fare dei distinguo,
non sui morti ma sulle battute. Fare battute (non
satira) anche banali sulla morte di un ragazzo di 24 anni
che, ne sono sicuro, avrebbe voluto vivere fino a cento
anche se si era scelto un lavoro rischioso, non è la stessa
cosa di fare satira sulla morte di Gheddafi. In queste
circostanze sarei per applicare una certa forma di
selezione per evitare che lo scemo di passaggio confonda
la satira con la cazzata e si senta autorizzato, pensando
di essere pure intelligente, a offendere la dignità delle
persone (il morto e i suoi cari).
A coloro che dicono che loro sarebbero ben felici se
si scherzasse sulla
loro stessa morte, dico che forse hanno visto troppi film
della serie “amici miei”, dove la morte viene esorcizzata e
raccontata in forma distaccata, in maniera secondo me
pure pregevole usando ad arte le peculiarità
della commedia. Ma non tutti i casi sono simili a quello di
Philippe
Noiret del film: una persona che ha molto scherzato in vita
con i suoi amici e morto (in maniera non tragica e ad una
età non proprio tenera)
i “suoi” amici si sentono autorizzati a ridere al suo
funerale sapendo che il morto, magari, nella bara sta
ridendo con loro. Provino i suddetti ad andare al funerale
di un bambino morto a causa di un terremoto o di Simoncelli
(24 anni!)e
a fare battute o a ridere e poi raccontino su questo sito
la reazione dei parenti.
Però non si permettano di considerarli poco intelligenti
perché magari non hanno capito le loro arguzie.
Ovviamente anche su queste morti (anche quella di
Simoncelli) si possono fare battute ma che siano degne e
che prendano di mira la morte e le sue circostanze, non il
morto, se non è il caso.

p.s.: perché si continua a fare polemica con delle persone
che sono chiaramente dei troll?

Saluti.

310 • Gianni Bacci26 ottobre 2011 alle 20:19

Ho letto che qualcuno ha detto: secondo me non c’è nulla di male…..io quando sarò morto vorrei battute divertenti…ecc…

la mia risposta è ” tu..parli per te…ma chi ti da il diritto di scherzare sulla morte altrui? ognuno può decidere per se stesso non credete? poi ognuno su di se, fa ciò che crede + opportuno”. Quindi le battute del ca— evitatele perchè non fanno ridere, ne pensare. Sono solo inutili.

311 • Elisa F.26 ottobre 2011 alle 20:27

Il giorno che vostra figlia verrà violentata e ammazzata da uno stupratore, io sarò li pronta a fare “satira” su di lei. E poi vedremo come la prenderete….comodo scrivere certe cose quando non riguardano noi stessi…

PS: La vostra è malattia….siete Parzialmente o Totalmente distaccati dalla vera realtà. Vivete in un mondo fantastico perchè non vi rendete conto diquanto dolore può provocare in una persona le cose che scrivete. Rispetto per tutti i morti, violentati, persone con patologie… famosi o no, giovani o anziani..colpevoli o no…ecc..ecc… Rispetto per i propri simili. Voi non sapete cosa sia.

PS2: non convincete nessuno quando dite che il titolo è un modo per onorare il ragazzo. Perchè nessuno vi ha chiesto di farlo. E se adesso fosse qui la fidanzata, la madre…straziata che vi dicesse di non scrivere certe cose, voi che fareste ? Gli andreste a dire ” signora, ma questa è Satira ! ” èhh ??

312 • Elisa F.26 ottobre 2011 alle 20:34

Fra Dolcino: no queste sono persone che scrivono senza firmarsi. E che poi non hnno il coraggio di scriverlo su un giornale firmandosi, oppure discriverlo sulla propria bacheca di facebook, perchè i loro amici e parenti si vergognerebbero di averlo come amico. Sono persone con seri problemi non connessi con la società. Perchè non riesco a credere che sarebbero capaci di ridere su una battuta sul proprio figlio/a genitore fratello/sorella morti da meno di 48 ore.
Queste sono battute , non satira, battute di livello mediocre. battute simili a quelle che fanno i 12enni sui vari gruppi di facebook…quando ad esempio scherzano sulla morte di Sara Scazzi, loro coetanea…

1- diciamo che sta storia del nascondersi dietro nick name ha leggermente rotto il cazzo e non da mo. Per l’ennesima volta: http://www.spinoza.it/staff/ e comunque nickname o no ficchiamocelo in testa che siamo sempre e comunque identificabili. NOI LO SAPPIAMO.

2- elisa f. come nessuno ci ha chiesto di “onorare il ragazzo” (non so chi l’abbia scritto ma non è così, né tanto meno il contrario) nessuno ti ha chiesto di leggere e immagino che, per coerenza, prima di venire qui, tu abbia spento la tv ancor prima della fine della prima delle 200volte consecutive che abbiano mandato in onda il rallenty della sua morte, e sia passata dai siti delle emittenti televisive e dei tg ad esprimere il tuo disprezzo per loro. Altrimenti non me lo spiego.

Anche Gheddafi avrebbe voluto vivere un’altra 50ina di anni. E dal suo punto di vista lui era un grande.
Detto questo, non seguendo il motociclismo per me era uno sconosciuto, nulla toglie che mi dispiace sia morto, ma è uno dei tanti morti sul lavoro. Per gli altri sconosciuti però nessuno si degna di venire qui quando vengono nominati in battute. Se non appaiono su copertine patinate ve ne fotte un segotto.

Elisa, che nessuno sa cosa vuol dire perdere un caro tienila per te, perché non puoi saperlo.

Pino, a quest’ora?

315 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 21:09

Non si parla di corda a casa dell’impiccato.
Tuttavia fuori da casa sua sono libero di dire ‘corda’ tutte le cazzo di volte che mi pare.
L’argomento “lo direste a casa dei parenti?” è una stronzata micidiale.

316 • Elisa F26 ottobre 2011 alle 21:19

Ma infatti sarebbe bene che nessuno facesse battute di cattivo gusto (che nn fanno ridere nessuno) ne su un personaggi famoso come lui, nè su un operaio sconosciuto morto sul lavoro. su nessuno. Cosa insegnate ai giovani ragazzini che leggono certe cose ? a non avere rispetto per certe disgrazie. Per quanto riguarda, il tuo commento iniziale, sei pure offensivo (rotto il XXXXX). Come volevasi dimostrare, di cultura qua ce n’è poca. ma tanta ignoranza, che di conseguenza porta a fregarse dei problemi/disgrazie altrui. Pe rquanto riguarda il discorso “se nn ti piace non visiti il sito” questo non vuol dire nulla. Il sito è aperto a tutti, e tutti hnno il diritto di criticare, se pensano che nel sito si dicano cose “sbagliate” o “offensive”. Signori/e, il discorso è sempre lo stesso: è comodo scrivere quando non si ha di fronte il soggetto (o i parenti) della persona su cui si fanno certe battute. Vorrei vedertici a scrivere certe cose su un tuo caroaico morto o suun suo familiare…no macchè, certe cose non le fate. Perchè vi vergognereste. e perchè perdereste tt i vostri amici..

317 • LuccheseDoc26 ottobre 2011 alle 21:35

Frandiben nn sei a casa tua. il Blog è aperto al pubblico, nn è privato. (e deve rispettare certe Leggi.e se non sbaglio c’é una Legge che definisce cosa é la satira e cosa non lo è)

Chiunque può leggere (anche senza iscrizione) quindi le cose che si scrive devono avere una certa rispettosità verso i propri simili. è questo che ci differenzia dagli altri animali meno evoluti di noi. il sentimento il capire quando una cosa è da evitare

318 • LuccheseDoc26 ottobre 2011 alle 21:36

Queste stesse caratteristiche sono state sottolineate dalla Corte di Cassazione che si è sentita in dovere di dare una definizione giuridica di cosa debba intendersi per satira:
« È quella manifestazione di pensiero talora di altissimo livello che nei tempi si è addossata il compito di castigare ridendo mores, ovvero di indicare alla pubblica opinione aspetti criticabili o esecrabili di persone, al fine di ottenere, mediante il riso suscitato, un esito finale di carattere etico, correttivo cioè verso il bene. »

(Prima sezione penale della Corte di Cassazione, sentenza n. 9246/2006)

319 • LuccheseDoc26 ottobre 2011 alle 21:41

LA MIA DOMANDA E’ : SE LA SATIRA ….. “al fine di ottenere, mediante il riso suscitato, un esito finale di carattere etico, correttivo cioè verso il bene. »

…le frasi qua sopra scritte(e non solo) quale bene finale portano? quale correzione? La società che vantaggio ne guadagna? A mio parere nessuna.

320 • Walter26 ottobre 2011 alle 22:00

No, no, Elisa. Non ci siamo. Non si basa tutto sulla semplificazione bianco/nero, amici/nemici, si può ridere/non si può ridere, ci sono dei livelli più profondi, i rapporti umani e l’intelligenza che li governa sono stratificati su livelli complessi ed infiniti.
Preferisco un solo amico che apprezza un mio commento/battuta fatto bene (espressione del mio modo di essere) che 1000 “amici” di facebook che premono “mi piace” su una banalità conformista.

LuccheseDoc ma di cosa parli? Ti pare che la satira (universale) possa essere definita da una sentenza della Cassazione? Qual è la sentenza dell’analogo organo francese o inglese o aborigeno o ghanese?

321 • Mark Dalton (da Boston)26 ottobre 2011 alle 22:04

Bravo Lucchese! Sante parole.

Inoltre a chi gli dice che non fanno ridere ti rispondono “non capisci la satira”. L’hanno inventata loro…

322 • MarcoMix26 ottobre 2011 alle 22:17

Io aggiungerei per Corrado che chi mangia sui morti non si chiama sciacallo ma essere umano, a meno che non sia vegetariano… Oppure della morte degli animali non gliene frega niente a nessuno?

Fatevi curare!!! Ipocriti!
Toh… è morto il mio grande amico, cosa faccio adesso invece di macerarmi nel mio dolore? Ma si, andiamo sul sito di Spinoza dove notoriamente non si fa satira sulle tragedie e consoliamoci così… falsi come Giuda.

323 • MarcoMix26 ottobre 2011 alle 22:21

E aggiungo: speriamo che almeno la metà di questi “disturbatori” sia perlomeno coerente con se stessa e smetta di venire ad ammorbare l’aria con la loro inutile saccenza…

324 • tanti discorsi....26 ottobre 2011 alle 22:39

scusate…tanti discorsi ma…di tutti voi che non vedete nulla di male in certe frasi…c’è qualcuno che mi dice se ha un bambino o una bambina in casa ? magari un cuginetto o un figlio. Uno di voi che ha il coraggio di dire che se domani muore io posso scrivere cose divertenti su di lui/lei in questo Blog e voi non ve la prendete ma ci ridete su. C’è uno che ha il coraggio di dirlo o no ? Grazie mille.

326 • filipio26 ottobre 2011 alle 23:02

ma è stato già detto “se vi morisse un figlio o una persona cara fareste battute” ?

327 • fra dolcino26 ottobre 2011 alle 23:11

Non si può liquidare un argomento sempre con frasi del tipo “questa cosa è una strepitosa cazzata”. Punto.
Se questo è il tono delle risposte penso che
l’argomento sia chiuso: non si è capito o, ancora più grave, si fa finta di non capire.
Nessuno ha detto che non si è liberi di esprimere la propria opinione tutte le volte che si vuole, anzi.
Però bisogna che questa opinione abbia la forza e la cultura di reggere in tutte le situazioni, altrimenti vuol dire che era vuota, senza spessore e poco meditata.
Prendete una vignetta di Altan, tanto per fare un esempio, su un qualsiasi evento tragico (diciamo un militare morto in Afghanistan) la puoi pubblicare su un settimanale e la potresti appendere accanto all’elogio funebre a casa del morto: vi assicuro che nessuno la contesterebbe, e le vignette di Altan in genere non sono proprio “leggere”.
Se dal mio post precedente si è capito che io sono contro la pubblicazione di qualsivoglia battuta sulla morte forse mi sono espresso male (anche se non mi sembrava), volevo solo dire che certe “battute” (escluse quelle dei presenti, si intende)sono a dir poco inopportune se non inutili e gratuite. Comunque non sono io che devo dare consigli agli amministratori su come gestire il sito che continuerò a leggere anche nelle sue parti più macabre perché mi piace, e non mi scandalizzo per una battuta banale.
Saluti.

328 • Frandiben26 ottobre 2011 alle 23:16

@LuccheseDoc.
Non mi risulta che le sentenze di cassazione possano essere definite “Legge” e quindi direttamente vincolanti.
Dire che ci sia una definizione di satira stabilita dalla legge per me è grottesco. A meno che non si stia parlando di Sharia.
Anche perchè quella definizione stroncherebbe completamente fuori dall’ambito della satira un numero sconfinato di autori storici e contemporanei (ad esempio i già citati Hicks, Carlin e Bruce).

In ogni caso ho letto la sentenza e apprezzo molto la tua correttezza nel documentare una tua argomentazione. Sei stato l’unico finora (su oltre 100 messaggi di critiche) ad avere questa accortezza, perciò non vedo perchè dovrei essere irrispettoso nei tuoi confronti.
Ma di rispettare gli altri che blaterano senza avere nemmeno idea di cosa stiano parlando, proprio non mi va. E visto che ti piace buttarla sul giuridico, ti faccio notare che mancare di rispetto non è ancora illegale, considerami pure animale se ti va (ah già, non puoi, sarebbe diffamazione).

Torniamo alla sentenza (“castigare ridendo mores.. blabla bla… verso il bene”): discutiamo sulla singola definizione di “castigare”? discutiamo di “ridendo”? o preferisci definire il concetto di “mores”?
Ti va? No anzi, facciamo una cosa: discutiamo della definizione di “bene”! C’è una sentenza della Cassazione anche per questo? Millenni di filosofie e religioni ci hanno provato. Vediamo se la Corte di Cassazione ci è riuscita in un paio di minuti?
Io per esempio ritengo un ‘bene’ spiazzare questa massa di persone che all’improvviso mostra contrizione e dispiacere per uno sconosciuto. Lo ritengo opportuno perchè la trovo una cosa totalmente ipocrita. Sono libero di pensare che l’italiano medio sia ipocrita? O la Cassazione me lo impedisce?
A presto.

@Mark Dalton, che ne dici di smetterla di fare la groupie e lasci parlare gli adulti?

Dai che forse si supera il record del post su michael jackson! :D

Elisa, nessuno ti sta cacciando, infatti ho detto che PER COERENZA avresti dovuto fare alcune cose prima, ma non mi hai risposto, ne deduco che ti sei comportata come tutti: ti sei vista tutti i replay, le interviste sotto casa, ecc…
poi, ti senti offese perché ho detto che una storia mi ha rotto il cazzo? mi scuso per qualsiasi cosa mi annoi. Se questa risposta per te non ha senso ti consiglio di porti delle domande (ma non copiare le risposte).

Allora, (sarebbero le solite discussioni trite e ritrite tanto da essere diventati banali ma ho voglia di esercitarmi con la tastiera, ho la finale della gara di bestemmie scritte domani) leggi cose tipo “Simoncelli figlio di puttana”, “che bello, è morto”, “ben gli sta”? Come senso dico, eh. Quindi è buona norma trattenere il neurone qualche istante nel cervello prima di farlo partire verso le dita. Tanto da provarsi una semplice domanda: “ok, con chi ce l’hanno?”. Se un ragazzo muore in moto posso inferocirmi in vari modi contro i comportamenti umani di circostanza, una battuta ben fatta che perculi gli speculatori tanto da renderli ridicoli a mio avviso è svariati livelli più in alto del mandarli affanculo o denunciarli. – Mi ricordo una bellissima e storica battuta di batduccio sul terremoto in abruzzo: “gli ascolti del TG1 volano. In circolo”.-
Allora rispetto per i “propri simili” (cosa intendi per simili? i neri, i cinesi, i portatori di handicap si possono prendere per il culo? No perché per me siamo tutti simili, anche gli animali sono nostri simili. Solo i commercialisti non lo sono) significa che devo rispettare la mandria di giornalisti gossip che assedia la casa del morto di turno per dire alla mamma “cosa ne pensa della morte di suo figlio?”
Ma anche lasciando perdere quell’obiettivo, che era un esempio, posso avercela con la morte, perché no: la satira non la rispetta, ma non serve neanche scomodare il genere letterario per chiedersi il perché mai rispettare la cosa più stronza che esista. Meglio ridurla a scemo del villaggio, no?
“Non si sterza sui morti” va ancora oltre ed ha addirittura paraculato il futuro, i vostri commenti.

PS: Zelig invece punta tutto sullo scherzare le mogli. Su quelle si può ridere.

PS2: il mio epitaffio vorrei fosse “non piangete per me, è questa foto che è venuta male”

331 • Leonardo Donelli27 ottobre 2011 alle 00:57

Che minchia è Zelig?

‘Non sterzare sui morti’ ha due chiavi di lettura. La prima l’avete capita tutti, ed è un po’ macabra, nessuno intende negarlo.
La seconda è “La satira” non deve sterzare sui morti. Perciò Spinoza non si tira indietro e pubblica battute che parlano di tragedie.

La seconda mi era sfuggita, effettivamente. Geniale! (anche se sono abbastanza convinto che l’autore non aveva pensato a questa chiave di lettura. Quindi tanto credito va all’autore quanto a chi l’ha trovata).

332 • Kintala27 ottobre 2011 alle 00:58

Per tutti gli indignati da titolo.

vi invito a leggere questo:
http://www.dirittodicritica.com/2011/10/26/spinoza-e-nonciclopedia-ironia-su-sic-e-la-rete-si-indigna/

e soffermarsi giustamente su questa ultima parte:

“Il “dolore”, quello vero, non è quello rappresentato dall’attacco iracondo, da momentanee foto di profilo su Facebook o da approvazioni con un tasto sinistro del mouse. È quello di un padre che ha seguito il calvario del figlio dal primo istante, o di una ragazza appoggiata piangente alla parete di un garage. Il tutto ripreso cinicamente dalle telecamere, con i mass-media che ricreano costantemente negli appositi spazi reportage fotografici che vanno dalle lacrime dei suddetti ad una bara calata giù dall’aereo.
Un ultimo insulto? Domandare a Valentino Rossi se “pensa al ritiro”: neanche il tempo di scendere da un surreale volo partito dalla Malesia, dopo aver travolto (senza colpa alcuna) un amico poche ore prima.”

a chi si indigna e si offende:
quanti di voi erano amici del povero ragazzo morto perchè correva su una moto costosissima a 1000 km all’ora senza per questo aiutare in nessun modo l’umanità?

335 • Eymerich27 ottobre 2011 alle 11:27

la satira qui, la satira là, e questo è lecito e questo no….. ma basta!!!

Schiaffi in faccia a voi ipocriti, questo sono queste battute. E non vi bastano mai. E ve li meritate tutti.

336 • AndreaS27 ottobre 2011 alle 12:02

Elisa (e tutti i fanculizzatori), perchè non dai sfoggio della tua grafomania contro la satira per scagliarti contro la battuta del bambino morto perchè curato da cure omeopatiche (Dose 12)?
la sua vita vale forse meno di quella di un marco simoncelli?

338 • omar27 ottobre 2011 alle 15:42

premesso che non divento matto per le moto e motociclisti e credo che tutto sommato certe cose uno se le va anche a cercare, credo che il rispetto nei confronti della morte ci voglia sempre. se pensate di fare satira in questo modo, forse non avete capito che questo non c’entra nulla con la satira, la satira attacca i potenti non quelli che sono in tomba e non possono manco controbattere alla vostra battuta di quarta segata

340 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:42

Frandiben
Ribadisco che, essendo probabilmente questo un OT, non avevo intenzione di ammorbare altri su discussioni non completamente inerenti al post e, probabilmente, poco interessanti per molti.
Dici che posso continuare a parlare qui? Ti ringrazio.
Se la mia risposta non entra in un singolo post (e questa si’ che e’ una minaccia) la dividero’ in piu’ parti.
… segue

341 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:42

… segue
2)
Questioni di metodo

a)
Esordisci nei miei confronti con:
“No Corrado, non mi interessano le cazzate che ti inventi di sana pianta per tentare disperatamente di vincere facile.”
Continui con:
“L’unica affermazione valida è che i giochi di parole non piacciono A TE. E sticazzi!”
E concludi con:
“E se a voi non piace, ma siete qui con la disperata necessità di farcelo sapere, la nostra soddisfazione è ancor maggiore.”
Ovvero: Non e’ vero cio che dici – A noi ci piace – Se non piace a te, cazzi tuoi e ci fa pure piacere.
Mia opinione: attenzione alle folle plaudenti e alla sindrome “molti nemici, molto onore”: di solito non porta lontano.
Il mio termine “manganellare” era un riferimento a questo atteggiamento, non alle tue argomentazioni.

b)
Colgo fior da fiore:
“Se le dispute verbali fossero un videogioco tu saresti la versione demo.”
“Si capisce benissimo che si tratta di una stronzata standosene seduti su un pc.”
“sei un poveraccio che cerca solo un po’ di protagonismo”
“stai giocando co argomenti che non sei assolutamente capace di maneggiare.”
Io avrei apprezzato giggi “perchè ha avuto pietà” di me
“tu andresti preso a calci in culo finchè non ti sanguina il naso”
“sei semplicemente un troll”
“di questi spettacoli conosci soltanto i titoli (e nemmeno li sai tradurre)”
“che tu a malapena sappia dove sia Londra.”
“hai terribili carenze anche in fatto di logica proposizionale”
“semplicemente fai il finto tonto sperando che ti vada bene”
“Se hai bisogno di altre umiliazioni mi ritrovi stasera.”

Il contenuto lo commentiamo dopo, insieme alle affermazione mie che ritieni offensive.
Riguardo al metodo, l’obiettivo di umiliare l’interlocutore in modo cosi’ becero mi fa tornare in mente il manganello gia’ citato.
Di nuovo: il mio commento sul “prenderla sul personale” era un riferimento al tuo metodo orientato ad umiliare l’interlocutore, non ai tuoi contenuti.
Non e’ un espediente: e’ una constatazione.
… segue

342 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:43

… segue
3)
Questione di contenuti
a) I miei “termini”
- Ho scritto: “Chi mangia sui morti si chiama sciacallo.” Mi spiego: l’ultima battuta del post prende per il culo i morti in Turchia; mi sembra una bella sterzata sui morti, per riprendere la vostra metafora. Confrontala con la vignetta di Vauro sul terremoto in Abruzzo. Capisci perche’ quella di Vauro e’ grandiosa e questa qui mi fa incazzare? Io voglio che si facciano battute sulla morte, cazzo, e ammiro chi le sa fare senza prendere per il culo i morti (bella forza, sai quando ti rispondono?), ma i bastardi che sono ancora vivi. La tua nel laboratorio su Simoncelli e il campione di ping pong, per esempio, per me e’ tra le migliori; perche’ con la morte fa capire quanto siano bastardi i vivi.
- Ho scritto: “trovare qualche buona battuta in un mare di banalita’ non e’ genialita’: e’ statistica!”. Riconosco, e’ cattiva. E’ come lo spettatore che tira il gatto morto sul palco. La reazione era dovuta agli incensamenti frequenti che vedo tra gli utenti del forum. Un po’ forte, si’, perche’ di talento qui ce n’e’ molto, ma basta co ‘sti pipponi su quanto si e’ bravi (e inalberamenti quando si critica)! Vi serve la folla plaudente?
- Ho scritto (197) in risposta ad aledamilano che sosteneva che fosse “una cagata immensa” il fatto che la lingua inglese contenesse moltissimi vocaboli in piu’ della lingua italiana e che avrebbe accettato scommesse. Ho risposto di informarsi e studiare e che non avrei fatto scommesse (affermazione forte in risposta ad affermazione forte; chi ho offeso?). Il motivo e che gia’ sapevo che la lingua italiana contiene al massimo 250.000 lemmi contro almeno 500.000 inglesi (cfr Accademia della Crusca), e non scommetto quando ho un vantaggio di conoscenza.
- Ho scritto (217) “Adesso anche il comico offeso che si mette a spiegare la genesi delle sue battute.”. Scusami, c’e’ qualcosa di piu’ triste di un poeta che spiega la sua poesia, un pittore che spiega il suo quadro e un comico che spiega la sua battuta? E’ lecito dirlo?
- Riguardo al Bagaglino, il mio commento era sul fatto che battute facili attirano publico facile, battute meno facili …. . Era un grido di allarme. Non vi interessa? Nessun problema. Solo che il Bagaglino ha chiuso. (Il che non implica necessariamente che voi chiuderete, tanto per fare un po’ di logica proposizionale)

Quanto sopra pensa di darti il diritto a sbeffeggiarmi. Posso capire il motivo?
… segue

343 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:43

… segue
b) Le tue affermazioni su di me
- potrei anche essere un poveraccio (e se fosse cosa cambierebbe?) e non cerco certo notorieta’: ti ho chiesto di continuare in privato e hai rifiutato.
- giggi ha dato la sua opinione, ho gradito la sua risposta, non condivido alcune sue affermazioni, ma ho lasciato cadere la cosa li’. Dov’e’ la pieta?
- io andrei preso a calci in culo finche’ non mi sanguina il naso. Potrei dirti che potresti incontrare qualcuno che ti infila un dito in bocca, uno in culo e ti sciaqua come una bottiglia (a volte lo stile cade, lo so), ma non penso che aggiungerebbe molto alla conversazione.
- dici che sono un troll. No, sto utilizzando il mio tempo per risponderti, leggo Spinoza e mi piace commentare. Punto. Si puo’?
- dici che degli spettacoli che ti ho citato conosco solo i titoli. No, alcuni li vedo dal 1997, quando me li registravo e me li rivedevo 3 o 4 volte per capire meglio le battute.
- dici che cononsco appena Londra. No, ci sto dal 1997. Se vuoi ti mando la documentazione fiscale e l’iscrizione all’AIRE o ti basta la parola?
- se le tue affermazioni dovessero umiliarmi andrei in bancarotta per il conto dello psicologo.
- sulla logica proposizionale, commenti nella prossima sezione.

… segue
c) il gioco di parole
Ed ora siamo all’ argomento “gioco di parole”.
Penso che tu sia d’accordo che si tratti di una delle tecniche del comico per far scattare la risata.

E un’arma affilata? La mia tesi e’ semplicemente che molto spesso non lo e’ e che il suo abuso porta in basso come le battute sull’Onorevole Bocchino.
Come dice stark ci vuole un genio ormai per fare una gran battuta sul tema.
E ci vuole un genio come Bergonzoni per riuscire a fare ancora battute satiriche (“Chi e’ stato?” “Noi siamo Stato!”) con il gioco di parole.
Eccezioni che confermano la regola.

E’ una mia opinione?
Forse, vediamo:
- giggi dice che autori di satira americani (chiedo venia, conosco di piu’ quelli inglesi) la usano. E certo che la usano, ma a) sono geni, b) non ne abusano, c) e’ una parte piu’ che marginale delle loro performance.
- mondo anglosassone: ormai c’e’ un riflesso pavloviano tra comico che fa (apposta) una battuta su un gioco di parole, il pubblico che fischia, e il comico che fa la seconda battuta di rimando che e’ quella che fa ridere davvero. E magari la terza per colpire e affondare. Il gioco di parole e’ solo un artificio.
- Italia. Paolo Rossi, Daniele Luttazzi, Sabina Guzzanti, Beppe Grillo (quando ancora non si era rincoglionito col movimento), Corrado Guzzanti, Daniele Vergassola non la usano quasi mai.

Quando in un post mettete 4/5 giochi di parole su 18 battute, capisco il voluto tono minore di Metadone, ma mi fa temere che la qualita’ stia scendendo e, dato che sono parte del pubblico, fischio. Cosa c’e’ di strano?
… segue

344 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:44

… segue
d) le tue cantonate
- Da quello che hai letto riguardo “Have I Got News For You” su wikipedia ti e’ sfuggito che la parte basata su titoli di giornali che potevano contenere giochi di parole e stata rimossa da tempo e sostituita. Forse perche’ non funzionava?
Consiglio: abbi meno fretta nelle tue analisi, non basarle solo su Wikipedia, magari guardati qualche puntata (forse su youtube le trovi). Ma se ti basi solo su Wikipedia, almeno leggi bene tutto quello che viene riportato.

- La foto che hai linkato non e’ della trasmissione “Mock the week” (programma della BBC). Hai preso la foto sbagliata. La foto giusta e quella senza la ‘A’ fatta con lo spray sopra. E non ha niente a che fare con prendere in giro i deboli. Quello che fanno te lo lascio come compito per la prossima volta.
Magari guardati anche qualche puntata: sai documentarsi richiede tempo. Non si fa in 5 minuti, senno’ c’e’ il rischio di parlare a vanvera.
Guardati 10 puntate e poi dimmi quanto sono centrali i giochi di parole. E l’unico consiglio che posso dare a chi vuole davvero documentarsi.
Se non lo vuoi fare e non ti fidi, non dire che non e’ vero.

- Il titolo “Mock the week” e’ un gioco di parole. Vedi sopra: come titolo puo’ anche andare, nessuno pretende di ridere con il titolo di un programma.

- riguardo alla logica proposizionale, ti ricordo che il suo dominio di applicazione sono, appunto, le proposizioni, ovvero affermazioni che possono essere solamente vere o false, ma non contemporaneamente (vere e false) o indefinite (opinioni, tendenze, consigli, eventi futuri). E la nostra conversazione non rientra nel suo dominio.

Buona lettura

345 • virginia godino27 ottobre 2011 alle 17:48

La battuta (?) su Simoncelli si commenta da sola.
La satira non ammtette (e non ha avuto) censure, ma l’imbecillità si.

Sono basita. BA-SI-TA.
Ma sul serio vi interessa e vi tocca così tanto la morte di un estraneo (escludo i pochi veri fan)? A me sembrate un branco di scimmie ammaestrate, che aspetta sbavando la morte di qualcuno famoso per correre su facebook a dare spettacolo col suo finto cordoglio. Sinceramente. Ora insultatemi pure.

348 • checco27 ottobre 2011 alle 19:45

@Matilde #51
ciao!

@a tutti i bacchettoni
vi rispondono Danila #54 e Tamara #346 così non perdete tempo a leggerli tutti e potete tornare mesti su fb.

349 • Corrado27 ottobre 2011 alle 19:55

@BdB

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354 • Frandiben28 ottobre 2011 alle 07:44

Corrado
per tutto il giorno io ti ho contestato queste affermazioni:
“Satira” sta a “Gioco di parole” come “Conversazione” sta a “Bella giornata, vero?” (162)
e
“Nel mondo anglosassone la battuta basata sul gioco di parole e’ considerata semplice e banale”(197)
Non a caso nei miei pistolotti le riportavo in continuazione. Anche se fingi che non lo siano, sono due affermazioni di ‘logica proposizionale’ che tu ritenevi vere e io false. Due stronzate belle e buone e andavano opportunamente annichilite.

Nel tuo ultimo messaggio ritratti completamente la tesi, sperando che io non me ne accorga. Mi basta.
Hai ammesso che ti riferivi solo all’Inghilterra (e non all’intera comicità anglosassone. Praticamente hai ridotto a un ventesimo la superficie della tua stronzata). Hai ammesso che dopotutto le usano anche gli inglesi, seppur in misura ridotta. Mi chiedo se è abbastanza ridotta la spinoziana proporzione di 5 su 18. Leggiti quelle di Metadone 12. Anche stavolta sono 5, e si tratta di fottutissimi capolavori da far crepare di invidia Bergonzoni.

Vuoi cavartela dicendo “Eccezioni che confermano la regola”. Davvero stai usando questo modo di dire come se fosse un’argomentazione? :facepalm:
E’ la tipica uscita di sicurezza usata da chi è troppo orgoglioso per ammettere ‘ho torto’.
Proverò a inserirla nella mia tesi di laurea. Vediamo cosa ne pensa il mio controrelatore. (Ma già il mio relatore mi prenderebbe a sberle).
Inoltre ti ho menzionato talmente tanti autori di puns (aggiungo Lewis Carroll, Edward Lear, Mel Brooks “Werewolf? There wolf!”), che il termine eccezione non è più confacente.

Mi critichi di:
- adorare le folle plaudenti
- avere la sindrome ‘molti nemici molto onore’
riesci a renderti conto che si tratta di due accuse contraddittorie? Ti consiglio di assumere un unico punto di vista e focalizzarti su quello. O continuerai a infrangere le più elementari regole della logica.
A proposito: nessun autore spinoziano si ‘inalbera quando si critica’ (forse qualche lettore, ma noi che c’entriamo?). In genere interveniamo solo sulle eresie spacciate per verità. (Tipo che rimaniamo anonimi dietro un nick, cosa non affatto vera, oppure che i giochi di parole sono…)

Ti spiego infine perchè ho calcato la mano con metodi da perfetto stronzo (cosa che non disconosco): in tutta la nostra diatriba io mi sono sempre rivolto personalmente a te, vediamo invece un replay dei tuoi atteggiamenti in cui non ti rivolgi al tuo interlocutore, ma gli volti le spalle per chiacchierare con la tua immaginaria platea: “Ragazzi miei, come si vola basso!” (197) Aiuto, dov’è l’uscita? (204) Adesso anche il comico offeso che si mette … Non ci facciamo mancare proprio niente eh? (217) E ora abbiamo anche il Frandiben (259) Frandiben dice che (296) Purtroppo l’ha presa sul personale (304)
Atteggiamento che a me sta sulla punta.

Le cantonate che mi accrediti sono ridicole, hai davvero stancato. Ti dico velocemente che tutti i titoli originali dei telefilm comici contengono giochi di parole (Simpsons, Griffin, South Park). Tutte trasmissioni che notoriamente non hanno alcuna intenzione di far ridere.

Guarda, ho persino apprezzato il discorso che fai nella parte 3a). Non sono d’accordo con quelle tue opinioni opportunamente motivate, ma le rispetto e mi piacerebbe persino continuare a parlarne. Ma sul resto hai toppato decisamente troppo e preferisco dedicarmi ad altro.
Non chiedo il tuo indirizzo di posta elettronica perchè c’è scritto chiaramente “non sarà reso pubblico”. Se riesci, contattami nel forum e se ti va continuiamo lì. O su fb. Stavolta almeno non userai la terza persona mentre parli con me.
Qui dentro avevi ragione tu, è scocciante e faticoso.

355 • Corrado28 ottobre 2011 alle 10:39

Frandiben

facciamola cadere qui.

E’ un dialogo tra sordi.

Buon proseguimento e divertimento

356 • 3anger28 ottobre 2011 alle 21:08

Ma secondo voi Marco da morto ha cambiato carattere?
Ma sai quante risate si sta facendo alla faccia di tutti i bacchettoni che scrivo falsamente indignati?
Marco era ironia pura!
Vi ricordate la battuta in risposta a Lorenzo:
Lorenzo: per questa volta passa,la prossima avrai problemi.
Il sic: will be arrested?

Un grande!!!!!!!!

357 • eldiblo28 ottobre 2011 alle 21:09

siete dei poveri frustrati di merda!!! scherzate su quelle troie delle vostre mogli e sulla vostra impotenza sessuale!!! spinoza sei un morto che cammina…

358 • virbius29 ottobre 2011 alle 16:06

dalla tragedia di sic,migliaia di clic investono il sito spinoza.it.Accusato di lucrare sulla morte,interrogato,Spinoza fà cenno di no con la testa mentre si sistema la gualdrappa e ridens…

359 • starburst30 ottobre 2011 alle 11:50

commento 357 (che non sa neanche scrivere correttamente il suo nick):
mi son scocciato di venire considerato, insieme agli altri che scrivono su Spinoza, come un incapace frustrato impotente sfigato ecc… da questi capolavori di persone che intervengono solo per insultare.
Ma che volete l’elenco delle ragazze con cui sono stato finora per cambiare idea? :-)

360 • Emanuele30 ottobre 2011 alle 23:47

Credo semplicemente che non siate molto diversi da quanti, moralisti, piangono simoncelli su fb. Certo lo fate in modo diverso, unico e sottile. Considerato però il fatto che voi, a differenza dei molti decelebrati di fb, avete le carte per far riflettere, ridendo, le persone, sarebbe davvero bello se imparaste ad utilizzare questa vostra arte. E non levo gli scudi a difesa di Simoncelli, ma mi riferisco a tutti i post che coinvolgono vite spezzate, per motivi più o meno nobili – differenziando poi anche tra la vita di un dittatore (post su Gheddafi) e le vite delle persone comuni-. Sono vite no? persone che hanno lasciato altri qui. Credo sia giusto il ragionamento che ho letto in qualche post: “Marco ci sta ridendo sopra”. Ma noi, voi, non scrivete per Marco vero? scriviamo, scrivete per quelli che leggerrano cosa abbiamo pensato. E non sappiamo come altri potranno reagire alle nostre parole, anche perché non sappiano nulla di queste persone. Non sappiamo cosa i familiari e i suoi amici potrebbero provare nel leggere frasi come queste. E così quindi come trovo assurdo scrivere pagine e pagine e “postare” milioni di foto su fb, credo sia altrettanto stupido scrivere un pezzo, seppur irriverente, su persone che non ci sono più.

362 • mickjones3 novembre 2011 alle 15:54

Bravissimi, non era facile, ottimo modo per non rinunciare a se stessi e per far capire comunque che la morte di un ventiquatrenne, reo di nessun male ( se non di amare un sport del cazzo, a mio parere ) non e’la stessa cosa della morte di un gheddafi.

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